Oral History with Jo Ann Underwood, November 4, 2014 (Ms2015-007)

Interview with Jo Ann (Murphy) Underwood

Date of Interview: November 4, 2014 Interviewer: Damon Kinmond Sound technician: Whitney Wright Place of Interview: Underwood’s residence in Blacksburg, Virginia Transcriber: David Atkins Length: 1:14:25

Damon Kinmond: Today is Tuesday, November 4, 2014. This is Damon Kinmond with Whitney Wright as the sound technician, and we are doing Virginia Tech's Oral History Project. Today we are interviewing Jo Ann Underwood at her home in Blacksburg, Virginia. Thank you for joining us. So to start things off, where did you grow up? Jo Ann Underwood: Ohio.

KINMOND: Ohio, and when was this?

UNDERWOOD: Well, 1929 I was born [laughter] and then from then on. My father worked for the Farm Bureau and Co-op, and he was very, very interested in that movement, and you might have guessed that I'm a liberal. Raised by a father who was an outstanding liberal. The kids called me a communist, but one day the principal of the school was in my classroom teaching civics because the teacher 1:00was sick. He told the kids that I was not a communist and explained to them what the movement was that my father was into. [Laughter] I'll never forget it. He's dead and gone too, but the fact that he did that for me was wonderful.

KINMOND: Would you say your father's political leanings affected the path of your life, what you chose?

UNDERWOOD: Oh my, yes! Oh my, yes. And he loved baseball, and we had planned his funeral, so we played “Take Me Out to the Ball Game” at the end. [laughs] We did his funeral ourselves, and buried him with us singing “Take Me 2:00Out to the Ball Game.” He was a character; he was a big character. And yes, he did have a great influence on my life. My mother did too, because they were really open people.

KINMOND: So tell me a little more about your mother.

UNDERWOOD: She was a part-time schoolteacher and believed that we as kids should know everybody that's possible to know of every different kind, color, and background. She had all kinds of people moving through our house. If somebody needed a home, first thing you know we had a new roomer. [laughs]

KINMOND: So there was always an inflow of new characters inside your home growing up?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, yes, yes, characters are right.

KINMOND: Was this a constant aspect of your childhood?

UNDERWOOD: Well we moved a lot because my dad was working with the Co-op, and they would move him, to the next place, and then we would all have to go, but yes. One town we lived in were Amish, and my dad was a great friend of the Amish, and they would invite him to church. I had a couple of Amish friends. I was back not too awfully long ago, and I said, “Does anybody here know Elva Miller?” and they said, “Yes, we don't know her, but that's her son.” So I got to meet her son. Isn't that good! Then we moved to another town, and they were Quakers. So I got to know lots about the Quakers, and my mom would take me to the parties, the Quaker parties. There was a school down the street 4:00from us, a private school, and it was a Quaker high school, and there's one in the country, and that's it. We had somebody out here doing a thing, and they said they were from a private school in that little town, and I said, “I know where she came from.” I went up and asked her, and yes, sure enough that's where she came from, that little, tiny town, Barnesville, Ohio.

KINMOND: When you say you moved around a lot, because of your father's work at the Farm Bureau, was it always in Ohio?

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: So you went to high school in Ohio?

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: Can you tell me about those years?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, and nurse's training too.

KINMOND: And your nurse's training too. Was nurse's training after high school, or during high school?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, after. I worked in the grocery store as a clerk in this little town in Ohio and saved enough money for my first year 5:00of nurse's training.

KINMOND: What led you to choose nursing training?

UNDERWOOD: My mother wanted me to go to college, and she even invited the Methodist preacher in, and they had offered me a scholarship. I said, “Listen, you do know that if I accept a scholarship, then I have to get all A's or B's, and I'm not sure I can do it. Tell the preacher I'm not going to go there.” They sent me to camp, and they had some people from the hospital come to the camp and talk about nurse's training. So I thought, oh that's a way to get an education. And it has been. I have worked my way through everything my own way. I worked at Student Health Services at Tech and went free.

KINMOND: So did you accept the scholarship for the nursing training?

UNDERWOOD: There wasn't any.

KINMOND: There was no scholarship?

UNDERWOOD: No.

KINMOND: Okay. So you went out and did that on your own.

UNDERWOOD: I got $100 working selling socks and groceries and I don't know what all at a quarter an hour we made. I saved $100 that first year, tuition that was my first year's tuition. I think my dad paid the second year, which was $60 I think, and the third year was free. It was a Methodist hospital.

KINMOND: How many years was this nursing training?

UNDERWOOD: Three.

KINMOND: Three years. Approximately, do you know what year you finished?

UNDERWOOD: This is a funny thing. From my 7:00father I just got in the mail a note that he had purchased a $5,000 bond or something for me with my name on it, and the only thing I can figure it's probably the year I graduated from nurse's training. So he must've thought, well I'll just do the old girl a favor, and it came due this week. How long has that been? Well anyway, 1950, I think I graduated.

KINMOND: Did you stay in Ohio?

UNDERWOOD: I'm trying to pull it together. I decided I wanted to go to college, really badly wanted to go to college. That was why I went into nurse's training so I could earn enough money to go to college. I got a job as a nurse at Hiram 8:00College, which is a little college, a little liberal arts school in Ohio. Do you know Bill White? Baseball player, really red-hot baseball player. And he was there and sitting around the table with me. Yeah, we worked our way. [laughter] And he was her shade.

KINMOND: All right [laughs]

UNDERWOOD: And he would say his name was White, and there was another guy at the table whose name was Black, and he was White, and well anyway.

KINMOND: What did you study at?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah, I went to Hiram and got a liberal arts degree. Hiram was wonderful because I got literature and history and everything, a liberal arts education. I 9:00graduated from there, but I can't remember when. I should look that up sometime. Anyway I really liked it, and I worked for the doctor.

KINMOND: Did you work while you studied?

UNDERWOOD: Oh my yes. I was hired as the nurse, and so they gave me the education, books, fees, everything, for being the nurse. I lived in the house that the doctor had his office in downstairs, and if I had a kid that was sick from the college, they had the room next to my bedroom. I worked my way through my bachelor's degree. I had a grand time. [laughs] I loved it. I really 10:00liked the liberal arts. I really liked that.

KINMOND: While you were working as a nurse was there any...I know your time at Virginia Tech, a lot of it was spent on sex education and contraceptives, was any of that going on while you were a nurse?

UNDERWOOD: Well, that far back no one ever said the word sex. I just took care of whatever came. My husband was one of my first patients, but he wasn't my husband yet, of course, but he did become my husband later. He had been clipping all the shrubbery and stuff around the football field so that they could see to play football, and he got into poison ivy. He had the worst case of poison ivy I 11:00ever saw. I had to shoot him in the rear end every day. [laughter] So I said, “This guy's got clean underwear every day he must be okay.” That's terrible. Don't write that down! [laughter] But I decided this is the one for me! He was wonderful, but he died in his forties.

KINMOND: After you graduated, were you with your husband? When did you get married, during your undergrad education?

UNDERWOOD: No, it was after I graduated. Then I worked his way through school being the nurse at Northwestern University in Chicago. Well Evanston really, it's in Evanston on the edge of Chicago. Yeah, I worked his way through. So I 12:00used my nurse's training [laughter] all over the country.

KINMOND: So then you moved to Chicago to be a nurse at Northwestern, approximately how many years was that?

UNDERWOOD: He was in the Navy when we first got married, so I went with him to Norfolk. I lived in Norfolk for a while with him, and then he had to decide what kind of school he wanted to go to and where I could earn a living for him. So then we went to Chicago. Yeah, we lived in Norfolk, just down the street from William and Mary extension, and I got some more education there.

KINMOND: What eventually brought you to Blacksburg, Virginia?

UNDERWOOD: When we were in Evanston, he started working for the Methodist magazine called Together, and they weren't real forward thinking. But his magazine, when he was dying in Sloan Kettering in New York City, he got a letter from Yale Divinity School that his magazine did more for the Civil Rights Movement than any other Protestant magazine. So he died knowing he - I said, “You didn't live long, but you made a hell of a difference.”

KINMOND: Impressive.

UNDERWOOD: Yes, I was proud of him. Yes, he was a good guy; he was a good guy. 14:00Besides that he looked nice too, [laughter] once he got the poison ivy out. But anyway, now what else?

KINMOND: So was it after your husband's death that you moved to Blacksburg, Virginia?

UNDERWOOD: No, no, he was working for the Methodist magazine and not real happy with the Methodists. Especially, since he did so much for Civil Rights that the whole South quit the magazine.

WRIGHT: What was his work with the Civil Rights Movement? What exactly did he do?

UNDERWOOD: He did, and I've got them all, editorials in his magazine. And his magazine, if there was a story out there about it, he printed it.

WRIGHT: What was the name of the magazine?

UNDERWOOD: 15:00Together magazine. The whole South quit the magazine because most churches gave the magazine to their congregations and paid for it. Well, doing all this civil rights stuff, we lost the whole South.

KINMOND: Now were these mostly racial issues?

UNDERWOOD: Yes. Yes.

KINMOND: Was there any talk back then about queer issues?

UNDERWOOD: No, no, isn't that odd? It was all racial. But I just took that up for myself after I lost him.

KINMOND: Was it because you felt it was lacking in the Civil Rights Movement?

UNDERWOOD: No, it wasn't that intentional, but now that I'm old and look back I think, “By George, I took off where he left off.” Yes, yes. Anyway, those were tough days, but we had friends that we had 16:00known in Chicago who worked at Tech. They saw how disturbed he was and how upset he was, and they said, “Why don't you come to Tech and work for us?” So it was Bill Walker, and he's no longer living either, but Bill kind of ran the movement around here about water. So Richard came here to help him--

KINMOND: About water quality or resources?

UNDERWOOD: All of the above, yes. So we moved here too, and he did publications for Bill.

KINMOND: And was this with Virginia Tech?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, yes. I went to work for Virginia Tech at the Student Health 17:00Services.

KINMOND: So you worked in the Virginia Tech's infirmary?

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: Can you describe your time there?

UNDERWOOD: We never called it the infirmary because that was a bad word for us, Student Health Services.

KINMOND: Student Health Services, okay.

UNDERWOOD: Sometimes I worked just to take care of patients because we had lots of... we'd have an outbreak of measles, and we'd have six kids with the measles.

KINMOND: When did you get involved with Planned Parenthood in Blacksburg, Virginia?

UNDERWOOD: Well since I worked for the Student Health Services, I was involved with them a lot, because if anyone wanted help or an abortion or something about birth 18:00control, we would work with Planned Parenthood on that.

KINMOND: And during this time, were those issues that weren't spoken about aloud?

UNDERWOOD: Oh no, they were talked about. Ed Spencer and his wife were in that too, and, I was trying to remember – Torgersen and his wife

KINMOND: Dr. Torgersen?

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: What was Ed Spencer's role in this? And who is he?

UNDERWOOD: Well he used to be Dean of Students, but I don't know that he works anymore. I think he's retired. I see him at Church. Well I see him a lot, because he kind of took care of me because he had a lot to do with that, with the award and that day.

[Note: Edward Spencer was Vice President for Student Affairs and Associate Professor of Higher Education Administration at Virginia Tech after serving first as Assistant Vice President for Student Affairs and then Associate Vice President for Student Affairs.]

KINMOND: With the Ally Award?

UNDERWOOD: Yes. We had a black woman who took his place. I'm trying to remember her name, and isn't that embarrassing? I really liked her, and we were good friends. She invited me over when they had the student opening of the room in Squires that's considered the cultural, all-cultural room whatever you call that.

WRIGHT: The Multicultural Center?

UNDERWOOD: The Multicultural Center. But anyway, Barbara Pendergrass that was her name! Barbara Pendergrass, did you know her? I loved her. She comes back every once in a while. She was Dean of Students and lived in my neighborhood.

WRIGHT: During what time period was she, this black African American woman Dean of Students, what year at Tech was this?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know. I'd have to [Note: Barbara Pendergrass was dean of students from 1998-2003.]

WRIGHT: 60s, 50s?

UNDERWOOD: When did I retire for gosh sakes, do you know? [Laughter]

KINMOND: I don't know the date I'm sorry.

UNDERWOOD: What year? But she had an opening for that center, and we could find that out from Squires. They had this big plate of cheese, I remember, cheese and crackers and I don't know what all they had in there and a lot of gay kids and all kinds of kids. Well it was a wonderful time 21:00because all of a sudden they stopped and presented me with a plaque for being open to all kinds.

KINMOND: So to lead into this, can you tell us about Tom Brobson?

UNDERWOOD: Oh, well he worked in Squires, no, no, the big hall...

KINMOND: Burruss?

UNDERWOOD: Burruss. He worked at Burruss. Now when I started dealing with all these people, these different kinds of people, I had a big party once and asked all the gay people around that wanted to come, to come to my house. And he came.

KINMOND: Now prior to this, was there a place where the gay community at Virginia Tech could get together?

UNDERWOOD: NO! They wouldn't let them meet on campus, which was really infuriating. My husband was on the 22:00board at the Presbyterian Fellowship Hall over on Washington Street.

KINMOND: Okay, so downtown Blacksburg?

UNDERWOOD: Yes. They decided, he and the preacher decided, that those kids could meet over there. And so they did.

KINMOND: And so you met at a Presbyterian Church?

UNDERWOOD: No, it was the campus. You know where the, words have escaped me since I've been sick.

KINMOND: The old home on Washington Street it's...

UNDERWOOD: Baptist Student Union is right next door to Cooper House, which is the Presbyterian. And R.B. lives out here, and he was 23:00there at the Baptist Student Union.

KINMOND: Were these largely unofficial meetings that were taking place, there was no name on them at the time?

UNDERWOOD: Oh I think they were Lambda. Lambda met at the Presbyterian.

KINMOND: Lambda Horizons?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, met at the Presbyterian.

KINMOND: And what was your role with Lambda Horizons?

UNDERWOOD: Nothing. I went to every meeting they had because I was in charge of worrying about AIDS.

WRIGHT: How did you get to that point? How did you get involved? I know you felt this was taking over your husband's work and continuing his work, but how did you position yourself, how did you get involved with that community?

UNDERWOOD: Because of AIDS. I was supposed to be in charge of sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy, etc., etc., etc.

KINMOND: So you were a nurse at Virginia Tech?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah.

KINMOND: While the AIDS epidemic had started?

UNDERWOOD: But one of the kids, I think I can tell you this, but don't write it down.

KINMOND: We can omit anything that you want afterwards.

UNDERWOOD: Okay. The first student that had AIDS I still keep in touch with. He's doing well. Can you imagine this long? How long...I've been retired since I was 65. Whenever he comes to town, I see him. There are a couple of professors that are gay, and they've died, so they have a big funeral, and we all go to that, and I see these people coming back to be with those, yeah, to be with the service.

KINMOND: That's nice.

UNDERWOOD: Yes, it's good to see them all. And to know they're still around. Yes, gosh, and he was one that's still around.

WRIGHT: I have to ask because you did not mention their name would it be okay if we leave this section in? This was actually very interesting and very important moment. Could we?

UNDERWOOD: You can leave it in. I don't think they'd care. Do you?

KINMOND: We'd like to find out everything we can.

UNDERWOOD: I don't think so, but you know they had that ceremony for me. And that was just this year. [Laughter] I do remember that.

KINMOND: Were these people at the ceremony?

UNDERWOOD: Some. Yes.

KINMOND: Some were, okay. So going back to your education work at the school, educating the community about HIV/AIDS, How did you initially go about that? Did you have a forum? 26:00Discussions?

UNDERWOOD: I ran around all the time talking, whenever I was asked, anywhere. I got asked everywhere. The kids all wanted to know about sex. Funny thing, the Lyric was rehabbing...

KINMOND: The Lyric Theatre.

UNDERWOOD: They had classes in there, and people would come in off the street to hear me talk. That was one. I just talked all over the place wherever. And Jerry Via, do you know him?

KINMOND: I do not know him, no.

UNDERWOOD: He's a very important professor to me, and he helped me a great deal. He comes out here now because 27:00he's president of the Bird Club. But he's retired. [Note: Jerry Via was hired by the Department of Biology in 1979 to teach introductory classes in biology to first-year students. In 2015 he served as assistant dean of undergraduate instruction.]

KINMOND: When you say he helped you a great deal was that with the awareness campaigns?

UNDERWOOD: He'd invite me to talk about, because he had a class called Human Sexuality, and he would invite me. I would go and talk, and he would talk with me.

KINMOND: Was the HIV/AIDS issues covered in his Human Sexuality class?

UNDERWOOD: Yes. We talked about that some.

KINMOND: Was this a novel concept at the time, to speak publicly in an academic setting?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know. I always thought that I was pretty run of the mill, you know, but maybe not. Maybe I was a crazy person always. But I was good friends with Jerry Via, and he had an important job. I know something else that's funny I'll tell 28:00you. I would talk, because a lot of actors and actresses are gay, so there was a wonderful kid over in the School of Performing Arts that was gay, black kid, and he called me mom. He would yell across the Drill field, “MOM!”

KINMOND: What led him? Can you go more in-depth with your relationship with this kid?

UNDERWOOD: Then he decided while he went off to the war, because the Iraq War was beginning way back,

KINMOND: So early 90s.

UNDERWOOD: Probably before that even. I don't know. It was way back.

WRIGHT: Reagan era, probably?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah, and he sent me a note to Burruss Hall: 29:00To the Condom Queen of Virginia Tech. [Laughter] And they knew it was me. That's the bad part! They knew it was me.

KINMOND: So what did you do to earn this title as the Condom Queen of Virginia Tech?

UNDERWOOD: Because everywhere I went I had them because that was the one thing you could do to prevent that from going through the school.

KINMOND: So a lot, a large part of your outreach education was providing contraceptives to the students?

UNDERWOOD: Well, not contraception so much as condoms, and that was a contraception as well. It was mainly because that was the way you keep the virus from passing from one person to the other. And so yes, I talked a lot about that.

WRIGHT: Was AIDS like an issue on Virginia Tech's campus? Was it running 30:00rampant with the student population, or was it just trying to prevent that from happening?

UNDERWOOD: Trying to prevent it. He was the only kid, I only had one kid, and I see him still. Of course, he still has AIDS, well HIV positive, and he married his buddy so he could have the insurance because he has taken so much of the drugs, and they're very expensive, so this saved his life. I see him all the time. He comes back. He comes back. I see him a lot. We've become good friends over the years.

KINMOND: So your HIV/AIDS education it was recognized by the American College Health Association?

UNDERWOOD: I have to tell you the truth 31:00about that. When I was in Chicago and working at Northwestern University, the secretary and I were buddies, and he became the president of the American College Health Association. So I came in the backdoor. He knew me from that job, and he's a good guy. So we got invited to...oh, and one of the doctor's sons had AIDS and

KINMOND: One of the doctors at Virginia Tech?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah. And he helped us. He went with us to...what's the town in Louisiana that's red hot?

KINMOND: Baton Rouge?

UNDERWOOD: No.

WRIGHT: Birmingham?

UNDERWOOD: No. I'll think of it...Anyway, the American College Health Association met there. Well I sent these two boys, gay characters, down with the display because I wanted to have a display at this thing, and they set us up next to...California, what's the big university out there that everybody knows about?

KINMOND: Berkeley, UCLA

UNDERWOOD: Berkeley, we were next to Berkeley.

KINMOND: Was this a conference that you were in?

UNDERWOOD: Yes. The American College Health Association had a conference, and they invited the doctor to speak. Because this kid when I knew him when he was a kid, well anyway, we got invited. Whatever.

KINMOND: What was in your, what display did you bring?

UNDERWOOD: So they worked up the display themselves, the kids did. We didn't have any way of, so we called ours “Education on a Shoestring,” I think we called it. So we did a lot of stuff by just pulling you know...

KINMOND: Does this have to do with a...did you have a shoestring budget?

UNDERWOOD: Budget.

KINMOND: So how did Virginia Tech institution support your sex education at the school?

UNDERWOOD: They did well; they did support it. They supported it. We did get mileage. I sent the kids down with the carload of stuff, and then I flew because the university gave me money enough to fly. Isn't that funny I can't think of that town.

WRIGHT: Which state?

UNDERWOOD: I want to say Louisiana. Wright and

KINMOND: New Orleans?

UNDERWOOD: Did we go to New Orleans...I don't know; I can't remember. This is awful. Anyway, they told me, “You know our exhibit is more visited than Berkeley's.” But they said, “Besides, we're cuter.” Because they had some gay kids too. Well these kids just tickle me to death. [Note: Underwood is referring to the American College Health Association annual meeting in New Orleans in 1986]

KINMOND: And was this conference, around what year was this?

UNDERWOOD: Gosh, I don't know. I'd have to look it all up. But, Tech might know because they had to 35:00pay for it. Dr. Vomlehn was the doctor whose son had AIDS. And so he was very interested in it, and he gave this big speech to the whole conference, and it was a wonderful speech. I've got it on tape somewhere in this house.

KINMOND: If possible we would like to come back and

UNDERWOOD: I'll see if I can get it out of the drawer and hand it to you.

KINMOND: Because that would be a valuable resource for us to have.

UNDERWOOD: Before you go away. He was sweet doctor, and he supported me, of course, and the kids loved him.

KINMOND: Did you run into any obstacles?

UNDERWOOD: Not very many, and I went to one of the vice 36:00presidents and said, “Can I be the person that takes care of the gays kids and be their sponsor?” He said, “By all means, Jo Ann!”

KINMOND: But you were the first faculty advisor to a gay group here at Virginia Tech.

UNDERWOOD: I think so.

KINMOND: And this was Lambda Horizons?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah.

KINMOND: Can you describe your role in that?

UNDERWOOD: Oh I just showed up at all the meetings, and I went every time they had a meeting. I got to know them that way. And then the girls tell me that when they saw that a woman was showing up, they began to come too.

KINMOND: Going back to your work at Virginia Tech, what circumstances did you find when you arrived at Virginia Tech that led you to have such an active role in the peer education?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know. I was one of the 37:00nurses downstairs, and when I first started out, I just took care of sick kids.

WRIGHT: And so it's just by circumstance being the nurse on Tech's campus...

UNDERWOOD: One of.

WRIGHT: One of the nurses on Tech's campus

UNDERWOOD: And we still have lunch together. In fact one of their husbands started the School of Osteopathy over here.

KINMOND: Was this, your work at Virginia Tech, was this prior to you receiving your master's degrees, your master's degree in Health Promotion.

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: Was this degree taken at Virginia Tech?

UNDERWOOD: Yes. I marched on the Drillfield, by George.

KINMOND: Tell us about that when was it?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know.

KINMOND: What happened? What did you march for? Who were you with?

UNDERWOOD: Oh I can find that out real quick because my son graduated from Virginia Tech at the same time.

[Note: Jo Ann Underwood was awarded her Master of Science in Education in 1984.]

KINMOND: So you were marching at Virginia Tech while your son was a student?

UNDERWOOD: And while he was graduating too.

KINMOND: Was he a student in the march?

UNDERWOOD: The School of Architecture, and we were on the Drillfield. They had the whole thing on the Drillfield.

KINMOND: What occasion was, not occasion, what were you marching for?

UNDERWOOD: Graduation.

KINMOND: Oh, for graduation.

UNDERWOOD: Yeah.

KINMOND: Were you a part of any protest of sorts at Virginia Tech?

UNDERWOOD: No, no.

KINMOND: No, were there any protests for LGBT rights while you were at Virginia Tech?

UNDERWOOD: I don't remember that. I don't remember any. I tried to be funny, and so people appreciated my being funny.

KINMOND: Was that a way to...

UNDERWOOD: Yes, to win the old birds, yes.

KINMOND: So there was a gap in peoples...

UNDERWOOD: I don't know.

KINMOND: Did you feel there was a disconnect between people's attitudes towards the LGBT community? Or even just doing sex education in general?

UNDERWOOD: Who knows? I got invited to the Methodist Church in Christiansburg to speak. I thought that was really a first. They were surprisingly open to me.

KINMOND: What did you do at the church? In what ways...do you know why you were invited there?

UNDERWOOD: And I only went once.

KINMOND: Can you describe any of the challenges of being a health educator 40:00in the university?

UNDERWOOD: They graduate. Your friends all graduate.

KINMOND: So you did become very close to...

UNDERWOOD: I really liked those kids, and by the way, I have a book that a professor wrote for those students. He came to the meeting, Lambda meeting. Now I learned more at the Lambda meetings than I ever thought I would learn about gaydom. He was a gay professor, and I don't know whether anybody knew that or not, but I think they did because people usually know. He wrote a book, and he gave me the book, and it's in there somewhere on that bookshelf, about why people are gay. His opinion was that in the olden 41:00days, in the caveman days, the women worked the shores because their skeletons show that they had big shoulders and they must have swam a lot, and gathered stuff for the tribes to eat, and the gay men, well the men were all out here on the edge protecting the women who were working the beaches. He thinks that's how gay people started, which I thought was an interesting theory.

WRIGHT: What do you think?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know. I don't care. [laughter] I really don't care. They are so good to me. They are some of the best kids that I have.

KINMOND: Would you say you had a mentor? Were you a mentor to these kids in Lambda Horizons?

UNDERWOOD: Oh yes, they came to see me. A couple of them got married, and I gave them that one down there, they always liked that thing, so Ramson.

KINMOND: The sheer, the sheers?

UNDERWOOD: Sheep sheers. Antique sheep sheers, and I called that shorn again. What I did was put ribbons on it and called it the gay blades. [laughter] And they'd think, they got it at their house, and they live in Christiansburg. She writes the biggest stories about Virginia Tech in the Roanoke Times, one of them.

KINMOND: What sort of advice did these students in Lambda Horizons come to you with? Or questions, concerns?

UNDERWOOD: I can't remember. You know I was just a friend. I can't remember that 43:00they did bring me anything. But I was glad that when I was going with all the men that the women then began to come. I was glad about that.

WRIGHT: Why wasn't it initially both men and women? Why do you think it took some time for the women to start coming around and being more involved? Do you have any guess?

UNDERWOOD: They said it was because I showed up.

WRIGHT: But why weren't they doing it beforehand?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know. The gay men and the gay women are very separate. But they weren't when we all got together, that I could notice. But you know I don't always see everything that happens.

KINMOND: Did you notice different issues between the gay men and the gay women?

UNDERWOOD: No.

KINMOND: At Lambda Horizons? Did they have different issues with the gay community at Virginia Tech or was it all under one umbrella?

UNDERWOOD: It was pretty much under one umbrella, and they were very upset about not being able to meet on campus. So when they finally got them

KINMOND: And this is to clarify the lesbians. The gay women did not have a

UNDERWOOD: Nobody. Lambda couldn't meet on campus. They wouldn't let them.

KINMOND: What changed that allowed Lambda to finally be able to meet on campus?

UNDERWOOD: Well because they met at the Presbyterian campus house, and I think the university was ashamed of themselves. 45:00That's just my opinion.

KINMOND: So the university eventually after they were meeting off campus allowed them on campus.

UNDERWOOD: Allowed them on, because it's the biggest fraternity on campus. What are they going to do?

KINMOND: So it was a large community.

UNDERWOOD: Large.

WRIGHT: Do you have an approximate number of how many students were involved during your time?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know.

WRIGHT: Thirty would meet at a time or okay?

UNDERWOOD: Anyway, and one of the priests came all the time. He's gone now too, and I think, “Is that why he's gone? Did they move him?” No. I don't want to say, and I don't know. I don't know anything about that.

KINMOND: Can you tell us about the opposite side of the spectrum, the straight community at Virginia Tech who stood up for the LGBT rights?

UNDERWOOD: You know, I was trying to think, but if I would go to talk in 46:00the residence halls everybody came, both kinds.

KINMOND: So it was at that time a very open environment?

UNDERWOOD: It seemed like it to me, but I know that it wasn't at the beginning.

KINMOND: When you say beginning was this before you arrived or?

UNDERWOOD: No, when I first started in working they met off campus. My husband was on the board at that time and said that they shall meet at the, he and another person that ran the Presbyterian - preacher, he was a preacher, said they shall meet at Cooper House, which is where they met next door to the Baptist. So I was glad about that.

KINMOND: So at that time the straight 47:00community, the allies, they were largely off campus?

UNDERWOOD: The kids were off campus. The gay kids were off campus meeting, and probably, and I don't know about it, but the first gay kid that invited me to his house for dinner, that was wonderful. Anyway, He told me the way you tell who was gay, they have Levelor blinds, and I forget what else the lights were, some kind of different kind of lights. He said that's how you tell, Jo Ann. He tried to teach me everything he understood, and I still keep in touch with him. He was at that 48:00meeting when they gave me that award. He was there. So I've known him forever, and he's one that went to...oh gosh, I want to say New Orleans.

KINMOND: To the conference?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah. He went down with the exhibit, and said they were cuter than, they were cuter, and he is an attractive character. He probably wouldn't care if you knew his name.

KINMOND: Can you tell us his name?

UNDERWOOD: I'm sitting here thinking...Weber.

KINMOND: Mark Weber?

UNDERWOOD: You know Mark?

KINMOND: Not personally. We did receive your contact information from him.

UNDERWOOD: Okay. Mark, he was the first one that had me for dinner and tried to explain to me what gay people were like. Yes, yes, Levelor blinds and

KINMOND: So at the time he was student?

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: And he was a member of Lambda Horizons?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, yes, yes. Oh gosh, he was a, still is, a good friend to me. I've got all kinds of stuff in there. He went off then to work for the Department of Health for the United States...what do you call that? Anyway, he was good friends with those people, and he got me their autographs for my graduation from Tech. I've got pictures in there of the snappy people from his day and mine. Anyway, he and I have been good buddies ever since. He's the first kid that took me in and tried to explain to me what was going on.

KINMOND: Did he introduce you to other members of the gay community?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, and when I would go to the meetings, he was a big shot in the meetings, and the person that you said worked for Tech, Ranson?

KINMOND: Brobson, Tom Brobson?

UNDERWOOD: Brobson, now I didn't have anything to do with them, and they didn't have anything to do with me. Because, probably because, of their situation.

KINMOND: Which was?

UNDERWOOD: Tenuous if you were gay, you know.

KINMOND: Can you, can you go a little more into that?

UNDERWOOD: Because some people are so prejudiced about those people that they wouldn't even want them working.

KINMOND: Would you say this was an issue on Virginia Tech's campus at the time?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know, but ask him what he thinks. I had him and 51:00a bunch of them over to my house for dinner.

KINMOND: Recently?

UNDERWOOD: Oh no, waaaaay back. I had an armoire. I don't know what you call them, but a cupboard that they were absolutely in love with my antiques. That's when I had a house and more stuff, when I had them all over, and they liked my antiques.

KINMOND: How long were you around and involved with Lambda Horizons? Once you became the faculty advisor, was it your entirety of the rest of your time at Virginia Tech?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah, I was mixed up with them always.

KINMOND: Did you notice any...did the group change in size while they were there?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know. I think probably, but I don't know for sure. I just remember snatches of things. I think that what they gave me when they opened the party at Squires, is behind that creature that's...let's see if it is. [Underwood gets up to check]

KINMOND: Okay, we can grab it.

UNDERWOOD: [Laughs from a distance] Here it is. And it was 2001.

KINMOND: This is great.

UNDERWOOD: They presented that to me when they opened that particular office, and Barbara Pendergrass was the chief.

KINMOND: So this certificate from Virginia Tech's Safe Zone can you describe that, Virginia Tech's Safe Zone, what its mission was, what it did?

UNDERWOOD: Well, this is the symbol for gay...that's the flag for the gays, and Barbara was always sympathetic to my work them, with the gay kids.

KINMOND: So back to this party at Squires that you mentioned, where you received this, what was that for?

UNDERWOOD: Opening of the multicultural room.

KINMOND: OK

UNDERWOOD: And Barbara was there and invited me. And these crazy kids, I was eating cheese and here they presented me with this! [laughs] I just was standing 54:00around, talking and eating cheese [laughs] I didn't know it was for me. But anyway.

KINMOND: I'll just set this down. So did you, yourself, have a labeled safe zone at Virginia Tech or was it just through your reputation that these students came through...

UNDERWOOD: No, I had kids come for all reasons. The students came to me, and they knew I would talk. Well what I did was go around to the residence halls, as I was invited. They said to me from Burruss Hall, you can't go unless you are invited, so I got invited to every one. The first year I went to every dormitory on the campus. So everybody that came was different. It was a motley crew. It was not just one group or another. It was everybody came.

KINMOND: What did you do in the residence halls?

UNDERWOOD: Just give the speech.

KINMOND: On?

UNDERWOOD: Sex.

KINMOND: Okay. And at the time were you the only person on campus doing this?

UNDERWOOD: That I know about.

KINMOND: Can you tell us some things you covered in these speeches?

UNDERWOOD: Well, I was over at the fraternity house that's behind McDonald's. Now it's a bar, do you know what I mean?

KINMOND: Oh Taphouse, yes.

UNDERWOOD: Yeah, okay. I was in the basement, and all these boys were sitting around in the dark. They had me over to talk sex, and I was telling them about being safe, and if you're going to fool around, you better know what you're doing. I said, “Now Vaseline will 56:00destroy a condom” and this kid says, “WHAT!” and then he says, “Does anybody have a pencil?” And then the other kids said, “You mean you can't remember that?!” It was the funniest night I gave speeches, was in their basement, but don't tell them I said that. What group is that? I don't even remember, but it was a bunch of boys. One time I had this beautiful athlete come running up the stairs coming into a room where I was working, behind a door and said, “Look, I'm the result of a mother who had an affair, and it's not going to happen to my 57:00girlfriend and me. What can I do?” Can you believe that? That's the most clear shot that I remember of that kid coming to me to ask me what to do. I appreciated it. All by himself he had the courage to come in there, come up those stairs, and find me in this great big room of an offices, and get behind the door and say, “Now look, it's not going to happen to me, so I've got to have all the advice you can give me.” So I did, yes. But I've often wondered how he did.

KINMOND: You don't keep in touch?

UNDERWOOD: No, he's not one that kept in touch with me. But I don't know that it was anything to do with anything, you 58:00know.

WRIGHT: Do you have any other memorable stories or interactions with students like that where they opened up and just shared their personal lives? Could you share any of those?

UNDERWOOD: I'm thinking. I can't. You know I erased them as fast as I heard them because it's not good to talk about. In case I would let somebody's privacy, I don't know whether that's the reason or whether I'm just getting old and can't remember. But I don't think I ever remembered very much that anybody said to me on a private basis. I was close with the counseling service and friends with some of the counselors, good 59:00friends. I would send a kid to them if I was worried at all.

KINMOND: So you worked along side...

UNDERWOOD: Yeah, I worked with the counseling service very closely. I also had a clientele of people who were binge eaters and vomiters. You know, that kind of stuff. I had that group kind of followed me around too. Well it was an interesting job to end your career with, yes.

KINMOND: So you found the job very rewarding?

UNDERWOOD: Oh my yes. Oh my yes. And just look around. I've got constant reminders of them. But I do wonder what happened to that Catholic priest. Now that we have a new pope that seems to be more 60:00accepting I wonder if that has helped him. I liked him a lot, and the fact that he came to every meeting just like I did, that I thought that was a good thing that he did that. I never hear from him, of course. I don't hear from Brobson either. What's his name?

KINMOND: Tom

UNDERWOOD: Yes, I don't hear from him either. But you know the grown-ups didn't keep in close touch with me. Except a preacher, I've got a good preacher friend. When she moved to another church 61:00where they were more open about this, I appreciated that she did that. We still keep in touch.

KINMOND: Approximately how long did you have this role for? Until around what year did you officially leave the faculty side of Virginia Tech, not the community but just the faculty?

UNDERWOOD: Well I retired when I was 65, and now I'm 85, so it's 20 years ago.

KINMOND: So mid-90s okay.

UNDERWOOD: 20 years ago.

KINMOND: And you stayed in the Blacksburg area?

UNDERWOOD: Well I'm still here.

KINMOND: So you've been here since the mid-90s. You say you've kept in 62:00touch with certain people that you mentored at certain times, but have you kept in touch with the organization itself, do you still have an active role?

UNDERWOOD: No. I decided because I was kind of notorious that the next person should have a cleaner slate. You know what I mean? And so when I gave it up I gave it up because I felt like the next person shouldn't have me shadowing, and besides it was another person...of her race.

KINMOND: You can say another black person, African American.

UNDERWOOD: It's okay?

WRIGHT: Yeah, yes.

UNDERWOOD: Yeah, and I liked her a lot. I felt like if I showed up all the time, you know, it just wouldn't be good for her.

KINMOND: So you kind of passed the torch, so to speak.

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: You gave them full control.

UNDERWOOD: Yes, and I don't know how she feels, but by then too, by the end of my career I had kind of blended it all together every...all my work. With people who vomited, with people who... you know - everything. And just handed her...but the interesting thing is a young man came to me when he was 19 and said, “Can I work for you?” and I said, “Well, I'll think about it.” So I said, “Okay.” I let him volunteer and be a volunteer, and he was the first male that I had that was a volunteer. And now he's married and has two kids and he took me to the pumpkin patch with the kids this past week, two weeks ago. Anyway, I really like him. 64:00And he has my job.

KINMOND: So he currently has your job?

UNDERWOOD: He and his wife have my job.

KINMOND: Do you know the title of the job nowadays?

UNDERWOOD: Health educator.

KINMOND: Health educator. Okay.

UNDERWOOD: Student Health services.

KINMOND: Okay.

UNDERWOOD: He and his wife, I haven't talked to them about work because there again you don't want to mess in somebody else's box, but I have a good time with him and his kids. He called me today. I forget what for, something I'm supposed to be looking for...

KINMOND: So recently this year you were at the 6th Annual Lavender Ceremony.

UNDERWOOD: Yes!

KINMOND: Can you tell us what it's about, who was present?

UNDERWOOD: Well he spoke, the person I was just telling you about.

KINMOND: Okay.

UNDERWOOD: And Mark did too.

KINMOND: Mark Weber?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah. He came back and gave a speech. The two of them spoke about me.

KINMOND: What sort of things did they mention? What was the theme of the ceremony?

UNDERWOOD: Well...it was more about me being more accepting of everything and everybody. And a mother came up at the end with tears running down her face and said that she wanted to thank me because she didn't think her kid would've been safe at Virginia Tech if it hadn't been for me. That meant more to me than all the speeches they gave. For this woman to say that, and he was one of those up on the stage with the Lavender around his...you 66:00know

KINMOND: Sash?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah.

KINMOND: So at the ceremony you were presented with the Ally of the Year Award?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah.

KINMOND: Which we have over here.

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: And it's now named after you?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, and I say my kid graduated from here, too, and I told him, “Listen, if you don't like it being called the Underwood Award you've got to speak up.” [laughter] But I'd kill him if he did. [More laughter] Yes, he was here, and my sister was here, and her husband. Well and the family are tickled to death.

KINMOND: They were all at the ceremony or...?

UNDERWOOD: Those few that I named, but I got lots more out there. And everybody's glad, and you know they did an article, Tonia did an article about it.

KINMOND: The Roanoke Times?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah. And she was one of the first women that came to the Lambda meetings, and I really like her. And her partner, they're the ones I painted that picture with the ribbons on it and called it the gay blades. They live over in Christiansburg, but they have been very good friends to me. When I was sick, and I was sick a month over here in rehab after surgery and all kinds of stuff, she came, one of them came, the partner, every day took care of me every day for one half of the day that whole month. That's really something. Came every day and stayed half of the day. Then my other friend, who took me this morning to 68:00the grocery, came the other half of the day. So I had special duty nurses every day. Well they weren't nurses, but they took care of me, kept me cheered up, made me drink water.

KINMOND: So you obviously left a big impression on these people you worked with.

UNDERWOOD: Well I like to think that. They certainly made an impression on me. As you can tell, I certainly care a great deal for these people. Yes.

KINMOND: Was there anything else you'd like to add as far as...what was...whether there were challenges? Was it rewarding through the years?

UNDERWOOD: The funny thing is that I saw the doctor today in the grocery store that was my boss when I was doing all that.

KINMOND: While you were the registered nurse?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah. The doctor that was - yes, he was over at 69:00Kroger's today with me. It was good to see him. Although, he put the kibosh on me sometimes. He would say, “Now you're getting a little too wild.” So he would cool me down a little bit now and then. And one thing I wanted to do really badly that I didn't get to do was I wanted to do with the counseling service, to talk about violence in dating.

KINMOND: This is...okay...this was an issue while you were working as a registered nurse?

UNDERWOOD: Yeah, but it still is.

KINMOND: Still?

UNDERWOOD: A big one now. I wanted to start that, and they wouldn't let me.

KINMOND: They prevented...

UNDERWOOD: They said, “Don't do it.” They supported me in almost everything else, so I didn't want to cross them.

KINMOND: So because you were allowed to do your work with the gay community, sex, health education...

UNDERWOOD: Yes, and I thought well that...okay.

KINMOND: Was this topic spoken about at any of the Lambda Horizon meetings?

UNDERWOOD: Violence?

KINMOND: Relationship violence.

UNDERWOOD: No, no. But I was beginning to be worried about that.

KINMOND: And were there any groups on campus at the time?

UNDERWOOD: No, that were interested in the subject? No, not that I knew of. But it just began to gnaw on me a little bit. Maybe, maybe I was always thinking of the next step that I would take. That would've been it. That would've been the next thing I tackled, but I was about ready to retire anyway 71:00so...

KINMOND: Are you aware if this void has been filled on campus?

UNDERWOOD: I don't know, and I haven't talked to John about it. Now John is the kid I took in when he was 20, and now he's 42, and he took me to the pumpkin patch with his little girls the other day. And I haven't asked him about that, whether they're into that, he and his wife. They would be the perfect ones to do it though - a married couple...with two little girls. I think they would be good at that. I'll have to ask him next time I see him. You've jogged my memory.

KINMOND: Well we can take his contact information afterwards and find out where he is.

UNDERWOOD: Go see John. I'm supposed to call him up. His mother wants to go somewhere I want to go, anyway. I've never met her, but she's my age.

KINMOND: So my last question is, I know we just spoke to you about this over the weekend, what made you want to do this interview?

UNDERWOOD: Do this interview?

KINMOND: Do you feel that this part of Virginia Tech has been recorded? Is there written down history of this or...?

UNDERWOOD: I don't think so, but I don't care. That doesn't bother me any. The people that know, know. That's okay. And John has my 73:00job, so he knows for sure.

KINMOND: So it's being passed down?

UNDERWOOD: And he and I, well the pumpkin that you see around here, well anyway. He took me to the pumpkin farm with his little girls and his wife. She works with him, the two of them work together over there, and I think that's a good thing to have as a couple.

KINMOND: A working relationship.

UNDERWOOD: A couple...probably reach more people that way.

KINMOND: Were there any couples in Lambda Horizons? Was there a lot of dating going on?

UNDERWOOD: Yes, but I never messed in that.

KINMOND: Okay, so you weren't so much of a relationship counselor in your role.

UNDERWOOD: No. No. I was just trying to keep them from having terrible diseases.

KINMOND: So all about safety?

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

KINMOND: All right, well I think 74:00this covers a good spectrum of your time at Virginia Tech, and thank you for speaking with us today.