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´╗┐Ren Harman: So this is Ren Harman. The date is May 21, 2015 at about 2:05 PM. The first question, what is your name, date, place of birth, and just tell me a little bit about growing up in your family.

Bill Latham: My name is William Latham. My date of birth is June 12, 1933. My home is Haymarket, Virginia, still in the house that my wife and I lived. It was the house I was brought back to at three days old from the hospital in Washington, D.C. For those who don't know, Haymarket is about 30 miles out of Washington in the northwest corner of Virginia. We still own and operate the 1:00home farm, which was a cattle farm, then a dairy farm, then back to a cattle farm, then hay and small grain. In the meantime, we ended up with four youngsters, four children that needed an education. My mother and I shared the income off the farm, so I had to figure out how I was educate four kids on half the income.

Ren: Right.

Bill L: So we got involved in banking and the hotel business. The interesting 2:00part is my dad died as a result of falling from a tenant house porch roof when I was only 14 months old, and so I had no brothers or sisters. He died without a will, so all of his property then, because he died [00:02:34] became mine. My mother ran the farms for all those years until I finished Tech.

Ren: So what was it like growing up, and as a child what were you like?

Bill L: I was pretty enthusiastic about school.


My mother was extremely enthusiastic that I get a good education, so I went through primary school in Haymarket and high school in Manassas. As a senior in high school I was elected president of the student body. I played a little sports, nothing to brag about, but enjoyed it. Of course from the time that I could play sports also I had to work on the farm, so it was sort of double-duty.

Ren: So once the passing of your father you kind of took over this role of 4:00helping your mother and really providing...?

Bill L: Well at 14 months old you don't do very much.

Ren: You're right.

Bill L: I had to grow into it, that's right. Yeah, I had to grow into it.

Ren: When did you first start thinking about college, was that kind of in high school?

Bill L: Early high school. My mother, I've been asked a number of times why did you choose Virginia Tech, and my answer has always been I didn't choose Virginia Tech, my mother chose Virginia Tech. She said, "You can go anywhere you want to, but if I'm going to pay for it you're going to Virginia Tech." [Laughs] But my 5:00first event here was Boy State. Following that I was on the judging team in high school, so we came to Tech two years as a junior and senior with the judging team, as a part of the judging team.

Ren: You were judging?

Bill L: Livestock.

Ren: Your mother she said you're going to go to Virginia Tech, was it because it was close or because they had a certain program?

Bill L: It was because it was a certain program. She wanted me to be well prepared to operate the farms. She said, she wanted me to come down here to get 6:00the broadest education I could.

My degree was in general agriculture, which no longer exists. But it was similar to a double major in the sense that I took as many of the ag classes I could, and almost all of my electives were in the Business Department. Maybe I would know how to manage a dime.

Ren: Right. So what year did you start your freshman year at Virginia Tech?

Bill L: 1951.

Ren: So you first step on campus in 1951. Can you describe that moment?

Bill L: Oh I can describe it in the sense that I had been prepared for it. I was 7:00really looking forward to it, but I wasn't looking forward to wearing a uniform, because I wanted to go back home as soon as I finished. Of course in 1951 everyone was required to be a part of the military program, and so I spent the first two years in the military. Then I went to Dr. Newman and I explained my situation to him and I said I would like to get out. He said, "Talk to General Devine, and General Devine and I will talk about it and see what we can do." So about a week later I got a call from Dr. Newman and he said, "I'm going to give you an opportunity to finish as a civilian and follow your own dictate system 8:00what you want to do, go back home on the farms," which is effectively what I did.

Ren: Right.

Bill L: My mother had built a dairy barn and three tenant houses on the farm, because we used a sharecropper. We built a relatively nice tenant house for the sharecropper and then two houses for the laborers that worked on the farm, so it was pretty well set-up, and all I had to do was be lazy and go back home. But it wasn't really lazy. You worked your butt off.

As soon as I finished college the sharecropper said, "It's all yours." He left.


Ren: Obviously the campus was much different back then, so what are some things you remember just kind of about the campus environment, buildings and roads and things?

Bill L: Well, the basic design of the campus hasn't changed that much. The drillfield, the mall was not there. The old entrance was down at the Student Activities Building between the Student Activities Building and...

Ren: Graduate Life Center?

Bill L: And the Graduate Life Center. And of course student enrollment my freshman year was I think 3,500. No, it was 5,500 my freshman year. My sophomore 10:00year it was 3,500, because military who had come back after the war were graduating and so it went down, to about 35 or 3,700 and then started building back up. When I graduated the enrollment was 4,600, 45 or 4,600.

Ren: So your major was general agriculture.

Bill L: Yeah.

Ren: Were there some professors and advisors that really played a significant role kind of in your time here?

Bill L: Yes, George Allen, coming to these events. Yeah. And Don Allen, his brother, and Dr. Reeves with dairy science. Because I only had in the Business 11:00Department a professor, it was either one or two quarters they didn't impress me as much as some in the Ag school did, but had some great professors. I had one in soils that knew the subject matter like the back of his hand, but when he was teaching he couldn't dot the I's. He just made it extremely difficult. I finally had to pass it and I had to go to him and said...


I can't remember his name, but I said, "This is just not working. I need some help. You know it, but you aren't getting it across to me." He said, "You come in one night a week and we'll get you straightened out," which is what I did and he tutored me, and I ended up getting a B in the course. It was a fun four years for me.

Ren: On the idea of it being fun what were some memorable or favorite experiences of your four years? I'm sure there's many.

Bill L: Yeah, there are, and I guess the one that stands out the most was I ran to be president of the civilian student body. By that time, we probably had 20% 13:00of the student body were civilians, and I won. So I had my senior year the privilege of working with Dr. Newman and the staff and really enjoyed the inner workings of the University.

Ren: What did you enjoy about them?

Bill L: Well, just knowing how it functioned. Not any one thing specifically, but the privilege of being one of the student leaders on campus. The Honor 14:00Court, the Honor School, the honor system was extremely important to me, that we had one and made it work. One of my roommates was dismissed because he knew somebody else cheated and didn't report it.

Ren: Wow.

Bill L: Yeah.

Ren: Obviously the Honor Court is student-centered and student-ran, so what do you see the importance, because this came out with other people we've talked to in other interviews, what made the Honor Court so significant that it was student-ran?


Bill L: The significance of the Honor Court, the honor system was the enforcement of an honor system that worked and there was punishment for dishonor. It was just extremely rewarding. Yeah. As a matter of fact, our best man in our wedding was a judge in the Honor Court. Now the Honor Court, there was not a civilian Honor Court and a military Honor Court, it was one Honor Court, as I remember. There was one Honor Court and everybody was addressed by 16:00that Honor Court.

Ren: I should have asked you this earlier, but where were your classes and where did you live?

Bill L: All over the place. The first two years I lived in A Company which is over by the library, by the Newman Library, the first building in that series there, and the Dining Hall was behind it, the old Dining Hall.

Ren: Is it Owens Dining Hall?

Bill L: Owens, yeah. And I had probably two-thirds of my classes in the Ag school and maybe more than that in the Ag school and the balance somewhere up in 17:00the Business School. It wasn't Pamplin, it was just the Business School. And it was quite a walk. [Laughs] I had to walk all the way from the lower quad to the upper quad.

Ren: Yeah. That's a bit of a hike.

Bill L: A bit of hike.

Ren: What was life like? Obviously you had your course work and your assignment and your homework and things.

Bill L: Lots of good dance weekends. It was also the era of the panty raids.

I'm sure that's come up in the conversation before.


Ren: It has.

Bill L: Yeah. I watched a panty raid of the skirt barn with the girls up there shaking their panties out the windows and the guys trying to get up the hill to get them. [Laughs] The real pleasures were the dance weekends, and of course it was almost all male so you had to import your women.

Ren: From Radford?

Bill L: Yeah, from Radford, from Sweetbriar, from all over the place. They would come in for the weekends. We would have to get them a place to stay in town. No 19:00hotel rooms though. Yeah, so they usually stayed with people we knew in town or stayed in our rooms and we would have to double up, when we were living in town. Of course that wasn't available when we were in the Corps. You better not get caught with any women in the dorms. [Laughs] If you wanted to get your tail kicked out that was the best way to do it.

Ren: Right. I guess the dances were held in War Memorial Gym?

Bill L: Yeah.

Ren: That's where my office is.

Bill L: That's it, yeah. Then it used to be called the SAB, Student Activities Building.

Ren: I know it's been remodeled and changed many times.

Bill L: One of the things that's kind of fun to think about, as a senior I had a 20:00little Crosley ragtop car that was about a third the size of a Jetta. About the same length but about the third, and it was not a typical convertible. It was like a covered wagon with a rear seat and a square top was one you could take off but it went all the way back over the back and down like a jeep. I had a date in for a dance weekend and I parked the car down in front of the old SAB.

We got out and went to the dance, had a ball. Came out at the end, I guess it 21:00must have been 1 o'clock, walked out of the SAB and guess what was sitting on the upper level where you walked out of the assembly, as we got to the steps was my Crosley.

Ren: Oh wow.

Bill L: The guys picked it up, carried it up the steps and planted it, and my date said, "What are you going to do?" And I said, "Be prepared to take a bumpy ride," and we rode that thing back down the steps -- ta bump ta bump ta bump, all the way to the bottom. [Laughs] And everybody up there was standing there as 22:00we hit the bottom, we rolled out, went off the curb into the road, everybody gave us a big hand. [Laughs]

Ren: That's a great story.

Bill L: Oh goodness.

Ren: That's fun.

Bill L: Yeah.

Ren: We're heard a lot of stories of people being thrown into the duck pond and things like that for whatever reason.

Bill L: Oh yeah. It happened often.

Ren: There was a lot of pranks and giving each other kind of a hard time.

Bill L: Yeah.

Ren: So once you, obviously you said you majored in agriculture because that's kind of what your mother wanted you to do, because she wanted you to take over the farm and things. So once you graduated what happened after that?

Bill L: I went back to the farm, and let's see, my mother gave me a trip through 23:00the Holy Lands as a graduation present. So in July, the first of July I met a neighbor and a Methodist minister from Southern Methodist Church there on 234 and we flew to London, then from London we flew to Cairo, and then drove through the Holy Lands, Lebanon, Syria, Jordon, Israel, and back to Paris.


Then we met, we had tickets to come back on a boat, and it was literally a boat. It was a controverted liberty ship called the [Cybiak 00:24:29]. It was about 400 feet long. There were I think 1200 of us on it coming back from Europe. We were warned that the weather might be a little bit rough. We left [Cohar 25:0000:25:00] France to come back to New York and about, when we left it was high tide and about eight or nine hours out at sea it began to get a little rough. By midnight it was really rough. And by 6 o'clock the next morning we were running at two-thirds throttle at about nine knots, at about a 12-degree list and taking 26:00the top off of 70-foot waves. Two hurricanes had coalesced in the mid-North Atlantic, so for three days we took anywhere from 40 to 70-foot caps off those waves. The boat would come up over the crown and the prop would come out of the water and go 'whoo whoo whoo whoo', settle back in.

Ren: Wow.

Bill L: Two minutes later it would do the same thing, and did that for 48 hours.

It took us an extra two days to come back across and the ship nearly broke in 27:00half. They had to put it in dry dock once they got it back to New York and weld it back together. But we had to stop in Newfoundland because we had a big leak somewhere, and somehow they sealed off the leak and came on in to New York. But it was an absolutely miserable trip and I swore I would never ever go across that damn pond again in a ship. [Laughs]

So anyway, so much for that. I came back. Mother met us and we had relatives in 28:00New York and spent a day there and came on back home and went back to farming. In September my good friend from Harrisonburg called and said, "We've got a dance over at Madison and there's friend of mine needs a date. Would you consider coming out?" I said, "Oh, I've got to [work all day [00:28:47]. I've got to get over there and I've got to milk cows." He said, "Get somebody to milk the cows. Come on." So I called him back and I said, "Okay, I'll go." So I came over and met Betty who has been my wife for 58, almost 59 years. Yeah. He passed 29:00away November of '13. He had had a horrible automobile accident and he spent the last nine years in a nursing home there outside of Harrisonburg. Every time I would go and see him the good Lord has been good to us, we don't have to live in 30:00that environment.

Ren: Right.

Bill L: Although he was well cared for. Yeah.

Ren: So you didn't want to go to the dance and you went and met your wife.

Bill L: Yeah.

Ren: That's incredible.

Bill L: She had already graduated a year earlier from NYU as a physical therapist. She practiced her profession; she opened the Physical Therapy Department in the new hospital in Warrenton, Virginia in I believe it was 1959, and ended up owning her own practice. The three daughters, all three of them 31:00went into physical therapy. The younger one went into practice with mom, and my younger daughter got cancer and died with breast cancer in '12. Obviously they closed the office. Mom had had retired maybe six years prior to Sue's passing. The other two older daughters are still practicing, one in Chattanooga and one in Fredericksburg at Mary Washington Hospital.

Ren: Did they come to Virginia Tech for college?

Bill L: No.

Ren: They did not?

Bill L: There was no physical therapy available in the State. As a matter of 32:00fact, the oldest daughter went to NYU, followed her mom. Ann went to BU.

Ren: Boston University?

Bill L: Boston University, and Susan went to Georgia University in Atlanta. It's Sue's daughters, Courtney and Bailey that play softball for Virginia Tech.

Ren: Oh, okay.

Bill L: Courtney graduated two years ago and Bailey just graduated a week ago.

Ren: Great. How have you seen your education from Virginia Tech kind of play out in your life? How has it influenced and what role has it played?


Bill L: It's been a great foundation to do a lot of things. I got involved in the banking business, owned a bank until the RTC decided it wanted it worse than we did, back when the Savings & Crisis occurred. I got involved in the hotel business through a member of Betty's family, and ended up with ten hotel properties, 1,800 rooms in five states. That's the reason we've been able to give whatever we have given to Virginia Tech, as a result of that, and the basic 34:00business education that I got here. I have used the Ag education all the way along. It's sort of been fun.

Ren: When someone says Virginia Tech what do you think of first?

Bill L: My personal relationship here for these last 40 years, because I'm sure you would understand that when you are raising your family you don't have a lot of time to do other things. But as soon as our kids got in college then we began 35:00to renew our relationship here at Virginia Tech. Dr. Russell and I knew each other well when we were here in school. He was from Marshall, which is just across the mountains from where I live, and we'd known of each other but had not known each other. But he asked me if I would consider serving on the Alumni Board. Well, and the rest is history. I served the Officers of the Alumni Board.

Was appointed to the Board of Visitors. I can't remember all those dates. I was 36:00on the Board for four years and went through the most difficult time of my relationship with Tech because we went through what I call the Bill Dooley affair. You probably aren't familiar with the Bill Dooley affair.

Ren: No.

Bill L: The Bill Dooley situation, but the word was out that we had spent a lot of money on the stadium and we were having trouble generating the funds to pay 37:00for it, that Bill Dooley had overspent his budget, overspent the income stream. So the Board of the Alumni Association asked me to go over to the Athletic Department to see what I could come up with.

Ren: What year was this?

Bill L: Frank has been here 27 years?

Ren: I think so, yes.

Bill L: It would be 29 years ago.

Ren: Okay.

Bill L: So I went over and the assistant athletic director, Bill Dooley was the 38:00Athletic Director and football coach, and the assistant athletic director was a friend of mine. And I went in and asked what was going on and he opened his desk drawer and he says, "This is $60,000 worth of checks that I was forced to write and I can't release them because we don't have any money to cover them." And I said, "You've got to be kidding?" He said, "Nope, I'm not." He said, "Dooley has made everybody mad and they have withdrawn their support for the athletic program and there is no money to cover the ongoing bills." So I went back to the Board and I told them, Buddy and the Board, the Executive Committee. I didn't go to the whole Board; I went to the Executive Committee.

And I said, "This is the situation. What do you think we ought to do? Well we've 39:00got to find a way to solve the problem." I said, "There's somebody that's got to know it. It's got to be Dr. Lavery." I said, "If I take it to Dr. Lavery will you guys support me?"

Ren: He was the president at the time?

Bill L: He was the president at the time. He followed Dr. Hahn. "Will you support me? Because I'm not going to do it unless you will back me up." "Yep, go do it," so I did. And I love Dr. Lavery dearly, but he wouldn't have any part of it. He couldn't believe that it was happening. And eventually I said to him, I said, "Bill, this is bigger than either you or me. It's a mess, and I've got to 40:00take it to the Board of Visitors." He says, "You wouldn't do that." I said, "Bill, I don't have any choice. The Board of Visitors has to know about it. Then it's up to the Board as to what happens."

So, I took it to the Rector and I said, "What do you think we ought to do?" And he says, "We shall meet." About two weeks later we all got a message to meet at the Marriott at Dulles because that was convenient for everybody to fly in. Now this is stuff you cut out, some of this you can cut out. Some of this I hope you 41:00will cut out and refine.

Ren: Yeah.

Bill L: But it was extremely important to the two of us, Al Jocko and me that we take it to the Board, and Dulles was a place that everybody could fly in, get there easily, quickly and get out.

Ren: Right.

Bill L: So I told the story and the Board decided that Bill Dooley had to go. We had an attorney representing Virginia Tech and the State who left a lot to be desired; I'll just put it that way. So, I had went home and everybody went their 42:00own way.

And I got a call from Al Jocko, I'm almost sure it was Al Jocko that told me, he said, "The law firm," whose name I can't remember, "Will negotiate our position with Bill Dooley, terminate his contract. Can you see that they get to Blacksburg?" and I said, "Certainly." So I met them at Dulles in my airplane, flew them down here to negotiate with Bill Dooley's attorney. Brought them over 43:00to Burruss then I went back and I was sitting there talking to Buddy. An hour later in walks both of the attorneys I had brought down. I says, "That was quick," and he looked at me kind of funny and says, "Wasn't anything to do." I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "Bill Lavery and the attorney negotiated and bought the contract for a million and a quarter." I said, "You've got to be out of your ever-loving mind." He said, "Nope, that's the fact."

Ren: Wow.

Bill L: "We're ready to go back to Washington." So we put them in the airplane and took them back up to the Washington. Two weeks later we had a Board meeting 44:00here, and Al had said to me, "Go talk to Lavery. You're there, I'm" wherever it was Chicago, I forgot, I think it was Chicago, he said, "Go in and talk to Dr. Lavery, see if you can't get him to [acquis 00:44:34]." And I did, and Bill says, "It's time for me to go," and so he resigned as president of the University. Not immediately.

He gave us time to get Jim McComas, which was, he was a great guy, but he was 45:00not what we thought he was going to be. Then we moved on, and I along with Bud Robertson and Don Huffman, I think they were the -- I know that Bud was one, I think Don was one who interviewed Frank Beamer to come to Virginia Tech. And things didn't go really well those first couple of years for Frank. You've probably heard this before too. And I got wind that McComas was about ready to 46:00fire him, and I came in and I sat down with Jim and I said, "You don't want to do that. Give the guy a chance. He's working with recruits he didn't bring here. Give him an opportunity. Give him at least three more years." "I don't know whether I can do that." I said, "You can do it. It will work. It will work." And so Frank's still here.

Ren: Yeah. So what I find fascinating, because I feel it, but my question to you is why do you think Virginia Tech alumni are so committed to the University? I know you have it at other places, at other universities, but there's something special I think about alumni here.


Bill L: You don't have the loyalty at other universities that you have here. You just simply don't have it. And it is because of the student life. It is because of what the student life has been, because of the support that the students have been given by the administration. How many universities are you aware of where the president of the university meets with the leading students once a week to have lunch with them?

Ren: Very few.

Bill L: It just doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. And where the president of the university walks around on campus and talks to the students, mentors with 48:00the students.

I hope Dr. Sands is the same kind of person. That one he will have to earn, and I think he will, can and will.

Ren: I think so.

Bill L: But that's where the loyalty comes in, and the fact that we have such a large military contingent in the world over. We developed that kind of loyalty through the military, although I think that our alums are more loyal than you will find at VMI or other military institutions.

Ren: What changes have you seen over time in the last years?


Bill L: Continued expansion. I went on for a second tour on the Board, seeing the growth of the University. There's something that has bugged me some, and that is the fact that the faculty wants more money and wants to teach less. That's how I perceive it.

Ren: Okay.

Bill L: Which makes it more expensive for young people to come here or any other 50:00school. It's not just happening here; it's all across the country. But Don Huffman, John Rocovich and I were the instigators of the passing of a resolution that no building would be built on this campus without being faced with Hokie stone. I think its beauty sets it apart from all of the rest of the institutions in this country.

There are a lot of things that develop those loyalties.


Ren: What changes would you like to see?

Bill L: I'm not sure that...that isn't above my pay grade. I don't have anything major that I would like to see changed. I'm delighted to see the medical school and I'm delighted to see the DO school, medical school. One of the things that 52:00was done which wasn't very smart, and that's put the dairy system where it is. Now it has to be moved at a cost of about $20-million.

Ren: The new road?

Bill L: For the new airport.

Ren: The runway, right.

Bill L: Extension of the runway.

Ren: Right.

Bill L: The good thing and I was very much a part of it, is that when we traded the 300 acres for the farm down on the river the University was able to move much of its research out on the farm.


Ren: Right.

Bill L: I can't ever think of the name of the farm.

Ren: I forgot it too.

Bill L: You know what I'm talking about?

Ren: Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I know the story, but for the listeners they may see Latham Hall on campus, so how did that come about?

Bill L: The development office picking [our] pockets. [Laughs]

Ren: Oh goodness.

Bill L: Well, that was not in the works. We had just sold a bunch of hotel properties and my tax bill was expected to be monumental, because the basis was very small.


So my tax attorney accountant said, "What can you do? Where would you like to give away some assets so you don't have to pay tax on it?" And I said, "That's easy, Tech." So Latham Hall is a result of it.

Ren: I see. It's a beautiful building.

Bill L: It is a beautiful building, but there are a lot of other beautiful buildings.

Ren: Yeah, absolutely.

Bill L: The interesting part is the fact that a [five story 00:54:52] section where you can grow full-grown trees for research it's just fantastic.

Ren: Yeah, it's incredible.

Bill L: Of course I didn't have anything to do with the planning. And our gift 55:00is generally for maintenance as opposed to bricks and mortar. And I have not completed it, but I will. It's all taken care of. It's just a waiting game. [Laughs] Just a waiting game.

Ren: What would you like people to know about this University? In 100 years from now when you and I are both gone what would you like people to remember, maybe personally or also for Virginia Tech in general? That's kind of a broad question.

Bill L: Yeah, and is one I don't have an answer to, other than to admire and to be sure that the University continues to fulfill its mission, continue to 56:00fulfill its obligation to the agricultural community of the State. It worries me sometimes.

Ren: Do you think they are now?

Bill L: Oh yeah. But it worries me in that we have emphasized, and I don't want to use the term overemphasized, we've emphasized the research university status, and that can at the expense of the Ag school, of the agricultural community.


And I just hope that that never happens, because we are an agriculture state in spite of what some people would think we are. Yeah. But that bothers me some. I just want us to be sure that we maintain the original, at least major part of the original plan for the University.

Ren: How do you think Virginia Tech's motto of Ut Prosim (That I May Serve), have you seen that play out in your own life? Do you feel like you've kind of fulfilled that?

Bill L: Oh gosh yes, I hope so.

Ren: I think you have.

Bill L: That's been my objective, yeah. You may have already had people, had 58:00your interviewees react to this building, but do you have any idea how many years it took for us to get this building here?

Ren: No, I don't.

Bill L: 20.

Ren: Wow.

Bill L: When we started talking about it over in Buddy Russell's office approximately 20 years ago, now it's more than that, it's almost 30 years now, it was 20 years prior to us putting the spade in the ground. The alumni of the University needed a home of its own, and it began to develop, and it would not be here today if it were not for Bill Shelton and raising the funds from the 59:00private sector to build it.

Ren: So we were talking a little earlier about your class ring. When you wear that what does that mean to you?

Bill L: Well, it means everything. It means everything. It has been recognized around the world. Mom and I have done a lot of traveling. We've traveled all the way around the world. We've been in 58 countries. When I was in high school, my last year in high school I made friends with a German exchange student, who after the year in high school he went back to Germany, raised a family.

We raised our family. Then about 20 years later after we parted and went our 60:00separate way, he came back to the host family and we got together, and we have traveled through Europe with he and his wife probably 12 or 13 times, 14 times. He's been over here seven or eight times. We have flown he and his wife all over this country in our airplane, as well as much of his family. And we've traveled through the low countries of Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway with his cousin 61:00and his wife. We have traveled through Kenya with that same couple.

We have been spoiled. We have had golden opportunities to go a lot of places, do a lot of things. And every place we've gone, every place without exception at some point people recognize that ring, either recognize it or want to know where it's from, if it's a college ring and where it's from. I wouldn't let any of our grandkids without buying a ring.


Ren: Great. In the future coming years what role do you see yourself playing, just keep up what you've been doing?

Bill L: Just keep on supporting.

Ren: Keep on supporting?

Bill L: Yeah.

Ren: We always like to close with this question, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you thought I would or you would like to talk about?

Bill L: There's something that you might want to do.

Ren: Okay.

Bill L: I will be buried in the Columbarium.

Ren: Oh okay, wow. I think that speaks to what this place means to you. Great. Thank you so much.

Bill L: Sure thing.

Ren: This was wonderful. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Enjoy today and tomorrow.

Bill L: Okay.