VT Stories Oral History with James Godek, September 16, 2016 (Ms2016-015)

Ren: This is just saying we can take your interview and use it for research purposes. It's going to be stored in the Newman Library. There's a pen for you. I will keep one copy and let you take the other one.

James: What is today?

Ren: The 16th.

James: I have the hiccups, because when you called me on Wednesday I was getting chemo and it usually lasts three days.

Ren: You're perfectly fine. We just ask for your address because once the interview is complete and transcribed you will get a CD copy of the interview and a transcript to kind of look over, so if you want to do any edits or deletions or add anything. If you have an email you would like to provide that would be helpful as well. So for this project we've interviewed about 100 or so 2:00Virginia Tech alumni, a lot of former Cadets and Corps members. President Sands and Dr. Laura Sands really got behind the idea of this project and funded it, which is really great. So we have a pretty big staff of professors and faculty and graduate students and undergraduate students, and so we're collecting all these stories, a really great website to feature all of these stories, and they are also going into Newman Library, so 100 years from now people can come and listen to these interviews and just learn the history of Virginia Tech and learn the history of individuals. It's a really research-driven passionate project and as someone, I've been here for a long time and I really enjoy it and I love sharing my love for Virginia Tech with everyone.

James: All right.

Ren: This is Ren Harman, the VT Stories Project manager. Today is September 16, 2016 at about 2 PM. If you say your full name, your date and place of birth, what years you attended Virginia Tech and your major.

James: I've got to remember all that. My name is James Godek, and I was born in Chicopee, Massachusetts. My dad was in the navy so we moved to Virginia and that's why I ended up going to Virginia Tech, because we were Virginia residents. What else?

Ren: Years you attended Virginia Tech.

James: I was a freshman in 1983 and graduated in 1987.

Ren: What was your major?

James: Business management.

Ren: Can you tell me a little bit about growing up and kind of what your family was like and some memories you have of your childhood?

James: Mostly we moved around a lot because my dad was in the military, Vietnam, and so we would move from Washington where he worked there, Virginia Beach where he was flying out of here and out of San Diego and then back to Virginia, where we ended up living in Virginia Beach most of my life. We moved there in 1973 and stayed there until I went to college.

Ren: Your father was in the military.

James: He was. My dad was in the navy and worked in the back of E2s as an NFO, a radar operator. I knew that when I was growing up as a kid living around airplanes and stuff that that's what I wanted to do, so going through school my brother was the smarter student than I was, but I was always just moving along, breezing along. They tried to get me into the naval academy, but it was difficult in Virginia to get there because there's so many military people there. But I did get a navy ROTC scholarship to go to school anywhere I wanted, so I just wanted to go as far away from home as possible so I picked Virginia Tech. And we were the first year, my freshman year was the first year navy was at Virginia Tech, so I was a plank owner of the Corps of Cadets as a navy student. It used to be just army and air force here. I came here and had a great time. I had no idea what to expect or what I was going 7:006:00to do.

Ren: What did your mother do?

James: My mom was a registered nurse.

Ren: You had one brother or did you have other siblings?

James: I had two other, I was a middle of my older brother and my younger brother.

Ren: What was life like growing up with an older brother and a younger brother?

James: You're in the middle, so you're always in the middle of everything. Your big brother gets kind of the way to go. He went to UVA, so I wanted to go, UVA is a wonderful school, I just wanted to go and be on my own, so that's why I came here as part of the deal. My little brother with to Hampden Sydney and became a physical therapist, so that's what he does down in Savannah, Georgia. As a kid growing up I was just two years younger than my older brother, so I was always just lagging behind trying to catch up.

Ren: Right. There's ten years between my brother and I, so I'm just interested in like being that close.

James: Yeah, trying to keep up but you can't. He's a federal judge now, so he was the smart one, but I'm the one with the more common sense type stuff. That's why I became a navy pilot, because it's not always about being the rocket scientist. It's about being the guy who can think ahead and see what's coming next and be ready for it.

Ren: Right. When did you first start thinking about college? Was it high school or maybe even before then?

James: My father is all about college. My older brother was pursuing college and back then it's either go to college or go to trade school and become an electrician or what have you, but I wanted to go to college.

Ren: Was your first memory or your first time on the campus of Virginia Tech was it the first day of freshman year, move into the dorms or had you been to the campus before then?

James: We had been for an interview and then we had come back. First I didn't even know I was going to be in the Corps of Cadets. I just thought I was going to be in the Navy ROTC. We came here and we had to be measured for all our uniforms and all that stuff, so I kind of had a little idea of what was going. And then when we came back for our first day, not of college, but of the Corps because you get here a week early and go through all that stuff, which was different, but it's probably better because you get here earlier. You get settled in earlier before you go to class.

Ren: What was your first memory of the campus?

James: As a kid coming from a high school to a pretty big college I thought it was just overwhelming. It was just big. I knew where my dorm was, but I didn't know where I was going. I didn't know where my classes were. It's something that every freshman goes through it. It's not like in high school where you go from one room to the next. I mean buildings across campus. You don't know where you're at.

Ren: Where did you live freshman year?

James: In Rasche. I lived there all four years.

Ren: Okay. Which has since been torn down right and replaced?

James: And I have a brick from it.

Ren: Oh, very cool. Very nice. In a lot of these interviews we always hear about the Rat Year in the first year in the Corps, so I'm sure you have lots of stories about that that you probably would like to share.

James: Well, I had a little experience with the military because I was in Junior ROTC in high school, and in the summer time you would go to two-week camps so to speak, so I was doing the summer with the marines. So I kind of got used to the breaking down and get everybody together and act as one. So I had seen that a little bit before that some had not, so I kind of was not surprised that when we showed up the first day the first thing they're doing is yelling at you so to speak, and I kind of saw this coming. I'm like oh I know where this is going. You know, it's just to get everybody indoctrinated into where we were going and pay attention, listen to them and do what they tell you to do and it's pretty much the same thing every step of the way, so I was not surprised by that. I was just surprised at the way they did things would be a little different than the way others did it.

Ren: In your first year, and you were obviously familiar with this because of your time in Junior ROTC and in high school, your dad was a military person, did you ever call home and talk to him about these things or did he kind of have to reassure you?

James: Of course. I don't know anybody who isn't homesick at some point. I think the one that I was doing okay with, like one day they had this, I don't know what the best way to call it was, but we marched down to the animal house area where there was a big open field type thing. They had everybody take your shoe off and they would tie it and throw it in a big pile and you had to go get your shoes, and it took you know, like 21/2 hours or whatever to find them and stuff and I was just starting to get tired of the whole thing. So I called my parents and of course my dad is like 'just hang in there, it will all come together,' which it did. But there are times when you have good days and bad days. You just have to you know, meet other people that you don't know and blend with them and that's what makes the difference.

Ren: So I'm interested in the shoe exercise. What was the incentive behind it?

James: Well, I'm not sure I really understood the whole point, but it was I guess to work together, pay attention to what you're doing, don't fight each other over it, you know.

Ren: Was your name in your shoe?

James: I don't even remember. It's been 30 years, but I do remember that.

Ren: What was Blacksburg like at that time when you first got here?

James: Well, compared to what it is today next to nothing. Like if your parents came or you came to a football game there was very few hotels. There was very few restaurants. There was just a small town, which for me I think it was better that way. But I mean it's okay now because there's a lot more to do, but if I went to a college like in New York City or Boston I don't think I would have done it nearly as well. I think it would have been too much for me, so coming out here where you're kind of isolated, except for the college, I think that was really a good plan for me. I just didn't know it at the time.

Ren: Right. A story we hear a lot as well is kind of where Blacksburg and Virginia Tech is located for a lot of people coming here that was really helpful, because there were as many distractions, especially in the Corps you were definitely even limited more.

James: Which is even better.

Ren: Which is even better, right. I think a lot of freshmen can probably utilize some of those life lessons for sure.

James: Sure. Like I say, if you're in New York City or another big city - LA, like OUSC or UCLA, there's so many more things to take you away from where you're supposed to be. It's just wide open.

Ren: How did you go about deciding your major? Did you come in as the major that you graduated?

James: No. I had no idea what I was going to do. I just wanted to take classes. I thought I was going to be working with computers and stuff, but it wasn't my thing. But back then we were using Computer McBride 100 with the cards, you know, all that stuff, and so I would be up at 3 in the morning for my computer time so I could do my Fortran and all that kind of stuff on those. And I just sort of got away from doing that, so I knew I was going to join the navy and I knew I wanted to be a pilot and they didn't care what I majored in. Just as long as I graduated, that was the only requirement, so I'm like 'okay', so I'll just find something that I like better.

Ren: And that was business?

James: Yes. Ren: Was the Pamplin College of Business established at that point?

James: Yes.

Ren: In your classes I'm sure there had to be notable professors or advisors or mentors through your time here?

James: Except I couldn't tell you a name. No, because to be honest with you as I was going through I took classes and I did okay, except for my freshman year, my first quarter I had a terrible quarter. As a matter of fact, because it was class, yeah, that was there too, but it was everything else I was doing, going out with friends, doing this, doing that. I was in the Corps and I was spending more time doing their thing and I had a 1.-something 18:00GPA, but we were in quarters, which was a much... If you're going to have a bad one it's good if you're in quarters versus semesters. So I came home for Christmas and that's when the grades came. I came them to my dad the last day before I had to come back because I didn't want to show what I had done, and of course we had our conversation, so I did fine after that.

Ren: After that.

James: I figured it out. I had taken too many classes, because my older brother did and that was his thing. I took way too many and I took stuff that I didn't know where I belonged, so once I figured it out, like anything else if you 19:00figure things out then you do well in college. There are people that never figure it out and it doesn't work out for them, and Tech is still a big school. Other than having the Corps who had academic advisors who I went to after my first quarter and kind of kept me steered in the right direction, where an average student doesn't have that, or didn't have that.

Ren: Right. Your freshman year, what year was that?

James: '83.

Ren: So pretty interesting time I guess in our history in terms of the Cold War and kind of times. What was campus like in terms of this social environment? I know you were in the Corps and especially your freshman year, but what was the atmosphere in the 1980s at the time?

James: Oh, I think socially it was wonderful. I joined with my buddies in my unit, E-Frat is what we were called. We were squadron E at the time which changed the company to E somewhere in my junior or sophomore and junior year. But I hung around a group of friends that we all became friends, and every weekend we could go out and it was a little different back then because you could go to a place and have a beer at 18.

Ren: Right, okay. It's a little different now.

James: Yeah, it was a little different. They can't go like we did. Then I was always a runner so I was running there, doing that kind of thing, but I think the social thing was wonderful. There was things going on with not just the Corps, but the University would have things going on and football games and everybody hanging out and going out after the football 21:00games. Yeah, I didn't think anything of it.

Ren: So we've interviewed a lot of people and I was looking over when people have graduated that we have interviewed so far, we don't really have a lot of people that were here during the 1980s.

James: Oh, okay.

Ren: That's one of the reasons I was curious. I'm sure you have tons of memories and good experiences, but what are some of your favorite ones that kind of stick out in your mind that you can still remember today?

James: Well my favorite ones are just one I was at the Corps, so the friendship that I had with probably about five or six guys that were in my unit 22:00and we would do something every weekend and it would just be a blast. But that was my first year like that. My second year would be the same thing and I started expanding out and I ended up joining a fraternity Beta Ki and so it even got bigger, just more people to socialize with. But very few in the Corps went to a fraternity, very few. Now I don't know today what they do or what they don't do, but that was just another thing that I wanted to do. I wanted to try and just have, I didn't want to isolate my only friendship with just the people I was in the dorm with. I wanted to expand it.

Ren: Was that kind of idea about reaching beyond people you're in the Corps with to be friends with and to have experiences and memories? Was that something that was kind of advertised, they asked of you all as cadets?

James: No, they wouldn't. They wouldn't push that at all. No. My brother was in a fraternity and every once in a while I would go to UVA for a weekend, and he was in a fraternity there and he was strong on that and said 'give it a try,' so I'm like okay.

Ren: Right. So you said you basically picked a major, something that you enjoyed because you knew you were going into the navy and then you wanted to be a pilot and so on and so forth. So how did that kind of education play out once you graduated from Virginia Tech?

James: Well, management, how do you manage people? Well in the military you manage people, not right away, but as you go on and on. So, some of the classes that I took here were about that. Some of the courses I took here had nothing to do with anything, but it's all about growth too, because from high school to going into the military would not have been the same as going through college and growth you know, as a young person. That put me in a position that when I got into the navy I felt that I had learned what I needed to learn here at school. I'm sure there are other things I could have learned or expanded on, but I had my four years. I had to get in and out in four years and go from there.

Ren: So, just looking over some quick research that I did, your career following Virginia Tech is pretty expansive, so you want to kind of walk us through the steps of kind of where you went and what you did following graduation?

James: Following graduation, to be honest my senior year in the spring is when the navy selected where you could go. They had very little slots available to go to flight school so I couldn't get one. There was a few here but not very many, so they came in and asked what I wanted to do and I said I had no idea, so three of us got together and we were thinking we were all in the same position, so we went to a course that a navy SEAL came down and gave us a course and we all passed. So my first thing I did in the navy was go to SEAL school, all three of us did. But I still knew I wanted to be a pilot, but it's like anything, I enjoyed it when I was there it was just another challenge. Some people can do things in challenges and some people can't. Their mind doesn't let them continue. They give up, and they're not a bad person, it's just that some people they take the challenge and they go from there, or they say I don't want to do this, I want to do something else. So I did that and I went through SEAL school. I put in another application to go to flight school. I couldn't get in there still because they didn't have any available slots at that point, but then I gave up my going to SEAL school when I put my application in, so I went to surface warfare for about six months, was on a ship for a while. They put out a message saying we need pilots now, so it was we didn't need them, now we do, so I put in another application. I got accepted and went to flight school from there. It took me a year and a half from college to go to flight school. To be honest with you I did much better in flight school having been in the navy for a year and a half than a guy coming right out of college. So I was a little older than them and a little wiser about being in the navy, but those guys came from always wanting to go have fun and not realizing you better get through the course before you have fun, so it's up to you. I mean I had a good time too, but I made sure I had everything I needed to have done.

Ren: And it's a lot sometimes when people come back to get master's degrees or doctoral degree if they've had any type of break or if they've worked in the private sector and they come back, most of the times they are usually the better students for multiple reasons than the ones that kind of go through the bachelors, masters, doctorate, or bachelor's masters. So it was kind of your experience even in 29:00flight school, right? James: And I kind of knew I wanted to go through this, because people would fail left and right. I mean medical there's nothing you can do if your eyes aren't good enough or you have a heart problem or something, because there's nothing you can do about that. But there's people like I said that are coming from college where they would be in a fraternity and go out and have a fun time and that's easy to do, but I had been through a little bit of other things so I knew. And of course my dad was like whatever you do make sure you're not at the bottom of your class. You've got to be at the top 25%, because sooner or later they're at the pick-up of pilots, but then they will go over the top of the hill and they will go 'we don't need more pilots.' So if you're at a certain point in the bottom half you're out. That's just the way and it 30:00happened when I was going through. It wasn't the half of them, but it was probably 30%. And I called my dad as soon as they called us in there and said 30% of you are going to be gone, and I called him and I was like that was the best bit of advice you ever gave me, is make sure you're in the top half percent of your class.

Ren: How long were you in flight school?

James: I'd say just under a year.

Ren: Where does your career go after that?

James: I finished flight school, went back to Virginia Beach and I ended up staying there the whole entire time. I flew E2 Hawkeyes. I did my [rag] there where you learn how to fly that airplane, and then I did my cruises on the aircraft carriers out of Norfolk. I did 12 years of active duty. I got out of the navy after that and 31:00stayed in the reserves for another 11 years, so I did 23 years total. When I got out of the navy after 12 years I wanted to be an airline pilot, so I ended up working at Southwest Airlines, which is where I still work.

Ren: I have lots of questions about flying that we're going to get to. I'm a nervous flier.

James: Oh, that's fine.

Ren: I want to get your resume kind of for the recording, but I want to back up just a little bit and go back to Blacksburg and to Virginia Tech. Following your Rat Year your other three years what were those times like? Were you a able to breathe a little better getting through that first year?

James: Oh, absolutely. For us, you did the whole year as a rat. I 32:00don't think they do that here anymore. Some things have changed. And of course somebody who came in 20 years after they say, "Oh, it's so easy for you guys," so it always is that way. We had a great time because we stuck together, we really did. Some people just wanted to be in the Corps and if they were on a scholarship that's one thing, and some people weren't on a scholarship, they just wanted to be there because they wanted the structure or what-not. I wanted to be a leader, so every year I always tried to stay like a sergeant in charge of this and ended up being E-Company Commander my senior year, which is what I wanted to do more than anything. People wanted to be higher than that 33:00where they're in charge of all of the companies, but I wanted to deal... For me it's more, because when you're in charge of like the whole Corps you can't manage everyone. You can only manage your staff to do what they want. I wanted to be with people, so that's why I didn't want to go any higher than the company commander, so I got the freshman in there and worked with all the other people, so that was one of the best things I had ever done, and I still remember that to this day.

Ren: We talked a little bit about being homesick and also a lot about the good things about Virginia Tech, but were there some negative or difficult experiences you had to encounter in your time here?

James: Well, like I said, the academics at the beginning until I could figure it out. I was never the smartest student, but I could figure things out, how do I do this. I just 34:00figured things out. I knew I wasn't going to be a mechanical engineer or electrical engineer or whatever. That's just not my style, but there were a lot of people that stuck with it because that's what they wanted to do and they ended up failing, instead of going, "This isn't working, I need to try something different." And I feel bad for them, but you've got to figure something out sooner or later or it's too late, because you get to a point where you can't recover.

Ren: And I also like the idea of coming in and not declaring a major to be honest, because I think that's such a pivotal part of growing up and trying to figure out what you want to do. I don't know any statistics on it, but I just wonder how many students come in and switch their major maybe after the first semester.

James: I have no idea.

Ren: But I think, my brother who is a Virginia Tech alumni as well, did kind of a similar track and I think it really paid off 35:00for him, just really knowing what you want to do that first year.

James: Right. Some people didn't have the chance to do that because if you were in the air force and you wanted to be a pilot you had to have a specific major, whereas in the navy they didn't care.

Ren: Right. If someone kind of says Virginia Tech what do you think of first?

James: What do I think of first? What do I think of it? I think it's a wonderful college. I mean Virginia has many colleges you can go to and they are all wonderful in their own ways. UVA, William & Mary would be your top colleges in Virginia, but there are many other colleges that are just 36:00as good or if not better in certain areas. Like my brother went to UVA and become a lawyer there. Now you generally don't come to Virginia Tech to become a lawyer, but it doesn't mean you can't be a lawyer. I don't remember a law school when I was at Virginia Tech, that type of a thing. But you know, veterinarians, Virginia Tech, that kind of thing. It's always had a great football team and I enjoyed all of that. We had a few years of basketball that were okay, but not usual and that's fine. I love Virginia Tech. Like I said, [I wouldn't do] it over again.

Ren: Right. There's a lot of polling in research 37:00that talks about Virginia Tech alumni being so... There's a Gallup poll I believe last year talking about alumni that graduate at Virginia Tech they love their school, right. Alumni become very involved and very active. Are you kind of involved with the University in any capacity in that way other than just being a proud alumni?

James: I am, but were terrible in football and that kind of stuff after I graduated until we got our new coach, Frank Beamer, and started getting better and better. The guys that I knew in Virginia Beach where I lived we would start coming to the games and becoming more active, and we did that. And then one of my best friends, Patience Conway, she was in my unit the whole time. She got promoted to a little higher her senior year, which is what we both 38:00wanted to do, so it worked out great, so we didn't have to fight each other to get to the same position, so that really worked. But she works here now.

Ren: Yeah, right. James: So I've always come back and I've done speeches for the Corps of Cadets. I did a gunfighter panel and things like that, but I've never really been in a... Being an airline pilot it's hard to do that, because I'm usually working weekends, so it's hard for me to oh show up for this thing, this thing and this thing. Well I can't.

Ren: Right. James: You can do what you can do.

Ren: What changes have you seen at Virginia Tech over the years?

James: Oh, it's just grown. Today I took the old road that we used to to go through downtown Christiansburg, because I wanted to stop by a place to get some stuff. But the new highway that comes in here, there was no mall. We had a 39:00movie theater that you could see one movie, you know. There were a few places you could... We ate the Schultz Dining Hall, which no longer exists. We ate there I would 85% of the time, and sometimes on the weekend you would go find somewhere you could go eat. But today, even though the places on campus that they have all these different places that a student can eat we didn't have that back then. And hotels are more, everything is more.

Ren: Right, just growing.

James: It's more crowded I'm sure. All the new not just dormitories, but the apartments and places students can live. Although I'm glad I lived in a dorm to be honest, because I could walk to class. I didn't have to worry about parking and all that.

Ren: I've been here for about ten years. I did my undergraduate here and masters and I'm finishing my doctorate currently. Even in that short amount of time I myself have seen, I mean it's just unbelievable. Were there any large gaps between you coming to Blacksburg and like when you came back was it like oh my gosh, where is Virginia Tech?

James: I would say that's a true statement. When I graduated I probably didn't come back for at least four or five years, because I had things I had to go through and all that, so I didn't have the time. So I didn't come back here, but I did meet with people that I did know from college. Like we would be in Florida and there would be somebody else in Florida training or doing something, or we would call each other. We didn't have texting back then, so you had to know somebody's phone number or get someone else's phone number from someone else, so on and so forth. But yes, when 41:00I was out in California you know I would meet people from Tech. Because I would have a shirt on or something and you would see someone, "Hey!"

Ren: You can always find a hokie somewhere.

James: Yes. But when I did come back after that it was not quite like it is today, but it was still big. \

Ren: Are there any changes you would like to see kind of moving forward with the University and just kind of the area?

James: Oh I think it's good that there's more activities for students. There's more to do. It's kind of funny, but when I was in college the only money I had when I was a student, because I was in the navy I would get 42:00$100 a month, and that was a lot of money I thought. So you could go out for dinner once in a while, but I don't know how they do it today. I don't know how students that were my age have cars. They go out every night. It's a different... You know, all the computers and texts, their phones. We didn't have any of that, so I don't how they do it now, but they do, so it's a different world. Very different, because nobody had cars in college.

Ren: Most people walked.

James: Yes, or rode a bike or something.

Ren: Is there anything you would like people to know about Virginia Tech that maybe is a misconception or when someone asks you about Virginia Tech, or if someone wants advice, like should I come to college here, what would you say to them?

James: Well, I think, one you should visit the colleges that you want to go to. If you want to go to UVA go visit it. If you want to go to Virginia Tech visit it, or William & Mary and James Madison, and just get a feel. Get a feel for how the college operates or the vibe. Certainly I had a good vibe when I got here. It was wonderful. They had things planned for students to come in the summertime to visit before they had decided the year before what they wanted to do. Some people if their father went to UVA then they would go to UVA because it's a family thing. The same thing with Virginia Tech, your family, your father, your mother, both of them, or you know, their father. I've seen it where the grandfather, father, and there's third generation at Virginia Tech. Those are a lot of things that may or may not have anything to do with the academics, but it had to do with those kind of things for sure. But again, the only reason I picked Virginia Tech was because it was the farthest college away from home, because it was time for me 44:00to move on. That's just the way I was.

Ren: Do you consider yourself fortunate in that regard, that you picked the University?

James: Yeah. My dad, he didn't care. He probably wanted me to go to UVA because it's easier for him to go see both of us. And it was closer. It's only 21/2 hours from home. Back 45:00then it was 55 all the way.

Ren: Did you and your brother have a friendly rivalry between Virginia Tech and UVA?

James: Sure, sure. Absolutely. And as a matter of fact when I was going through school here, two years I went to UVA to watch them and then they came to watch us. And my dad went to the University of Miami, so that was a big rivalry here at Virginia Tech too, so we he would come to the games, so it was wonderful.

Ren: If you are comfortable can we talk a little bit about your triathlons and you are a brain cancer survivor and these kind of things?

James: Absolutely. It doesn't bother me. There are people who 46:00are just afraid of it, I'm just the opposite. I'm the first one to show it. I'm like here I am. It's not going to bother me one bit, trust me.

Ren: Okay. When did you first learn a diagnosis?

James: I knew I was having issues. I was feeling like an anger, which was weird, when I was driving, that I never remembered there being any issues that I remembered. I was having trouble, I knew what I wanted to say but I would have to work around it to get to the end instead of just straight-line, so I didn't know what was going on. I thought maybe I was working a lot, I was doing a lot of things. I was just tired. But my wife said, "Why don't we just go see somebody and see what they say?" So I went to a neurologist and he put me through a bunch of tests, and I'm very good at like when you're in the military you never admit to anything. Like when you go see a doctor everything is good. Good to go. No problems with anything, whether 47:00you do or don't. So I was always, when I went to that test he gave me I knew where I couldn't go, so I tried to go around it.

Ren: Right.

James: That's just how I was thinking, and he knew something wasn't right but he wasn't sure, and he said, "I think you need to go see this doctor but it will be two or three weeks." I'm like, "Okay." Well, in between that meeting I had with that doctor and the three weeks I was going to have another, I was at work and I was actually flying and there was two pilots in the airplane, one guy flies, the other guys talks on the radios and does the other thing and then the next leg we would swap. Well, I flew fine because I had no problems physically, but the next one I was having trouble making radio calls. I couldn't tell you station four-digit number. I couldn't remember it, and I knew okay, something is not going right. As soon as I land in the next place I'm going to call and let them know I need to go back home and see a doctor, so I did. I landed in Dayton, Ohio, I will never forget. I got to my room because that was the end of our day, and I called up Southwest and I told them I didn't know where I was. I said, "I'm reading my ID. This is my name and my employee number, but I'm not sure where I'm at. I'm having difficulties." Well they didn't know what to do. I said, "I'm going home. I need to see a doctor." So they flew me to Baltimore the next day and I drove home, which kind of freaked out my wife and everything. She was on the phone. I had other people calling me. I didn't know what was going on, but she was calling people to tell them to call me, but driving was fine. My buddies afterward said 'we didn't know what you were saying,' but I didn't know that. As soon as I got home I changed my clothes and we went to the hospital. The doctors were like, "We don't see what's going on. Your blood and everything is good, your heart rate, your blood pressure and everything is good, but we'll give you a CAT scan just to see," and that's when it came out that I had brain 50:0049:0048:00cancer, and a day later I had surgery.

Ren: Wow. What year was that?

James: 2014, April 20th.

Ren: Wow. James: I had brain surgery and I was out of the hospital in four days, which they've never had anybody leave in four days. So I thought that was great, until the guy who did the operation gives you 12 to 18 months to live, and then they leave. That's it. You're done with them. Then you have your oncologist, so I had the two oncologists, one for chemo and one for radiology, for the radiation on that, which I'm like, "Okay, we'll go. We'll do that." I had no problem with it. It didn't bother me one bit. The biggest learning thing that I had from my surgery was always treat the nurses like they are queens, because I looked around and you could see a lot of people who were just not friendly people. They were mean, you know, and the nurses had to deal with these people all the time. Just say something nice, that you have a nice smile today and they would stop, "Oh, did you just say that?" Because they're not used to it. I'm like oh, good. Learn to do that everywhere. It's amazing how... And that started the whole process of, when I learned I had cancer and I learned what I was dealing with there's many ways you can go. You can take it hard and just be miserable and angry at the process, why did you get it? I don't know why I got it. Who am I going to be angry at?

Ren: Was there a history of cancer in your family?

James: No. No. The hardest part of it was telling your parents that you have brain cancer out of nowhere. But I just looked at it as I'm going to do the best I can and go from there. One of the guys that I work with at Southwest's child, 15 years old, he called me and said his son has the same cancer I have, can I come talk to him. I'm like, "Absolutely." He was a children's hospital. I went down there and I did that. The entire time he was there I would come see him as much as I could, but he ended up going to Memphis to go to St. Jude's, and I still Facebook and stuff like that. I just liked talking to people about it and let them know don't let it control you. You control it. Have the attitude of beating it. I'll be the first to admit that every day is not a good day. I've had my bad days and I've had my good days. I get scared every time I go in for an MRI, which I'm doing on the 28th of this month, because until I do an MRI and I go wait in the doctor's office, and I wait and I wait and I wait to find out is it good or is it bad? But I do that every two months, so I live every two months, is it good? Is it 54:0053:00bad?

Ren: I'm sorry.

James: No, it is. It is what it is. Some people, like I said, the doctors will tell you, there's people that take it well and those that don't, so I take it well. I do things. I still do my triathlons that I used to do and the runs. I have shirts that say I'm a cancer survivor, cheer for me, and people will come up and talk to you. People will come up and talk to you and tell you my brother has cancer; my mother has cancer. They are afraid to talk about it, but when I'm wearing a shirt that says I have cancer.

Ren: It kind of opens the door a little bit.

James: It opens the door and people will talk to you. I have a bumper sticker on my car. I was coming out of a grocery store and there was someone waiting by my car, I'm like oh she hit my car. But she said, "No, I saw your bumper sticker and I wanted to talk to you, because my 55:00husband has brain cancer," and we were there for 45 minutes just chatting just because she saw the bumper sticker.

Ren: Because the reason I'm becoming emotional is because I think cancer is something that touches so many peoples' lives.

James: It does.

Ren: I lost an uncle to lung cancer when I was in college here in 2008 and my grandfather that I've never met he had cancer. He died a few months after I was born, so cancer is one of those things that just touches so many people and the reactions that people have to it are so different. They are angry, or they are like why do I have it or they can kind of throw in the towel and kind of give up and feel weak, or it seems to how you've really approached it, you've hit it full on and head-on and still been able to do the things that you do with triathlons and stuff.

James: Right. I think it comes all the way back to the beginning when I went to SEAL school, you had to try hard. You had to beat it, overcome it. Whatever you had to do you had to do, then I'm a runner, and then I became a triathlete. I've done Ironmans and many half of them. I don't even know how many it's so many of them. It's easy when everything is going well. Oh that was great, it was wonderful. But I've also had Ironmans where I had a bad day. I was sick from something, I don't know, so all my goals are out the window. Now how do I just finish. It's like plan A and plan B and plan C are out the window. It's time for plan D, what do I got to do? 57:00So that's how my thought process always was. What do I do next? It's like golf, I want to hit down the middle of the fairway but it goes in the woods. What's plan B? Okay, I can't just hit it as hard as I want. I've got to do plan B or plan C. Life [is] plan A, plan B, plan C. Some people attack it differently, but I was always okay, what do I do next? When I got the cancer I'm like okay, what do I do next? What do I do now? I'm not going to be working right now until I'm cured, so what am I going to do now? Am I going to sit on my couch and watch TV? No, I'm going to keep training for an Ironman, which I did this July. It was the hardest one I ever did. I went from doing them in ten hours to doing them in 16 hours. It was hard, but I made two friends because I got to the part where I have to walk a marathon because I couldn't run it. There was no way I could run it, and I ran into one guy and we were talking and then he finds out he had...but he could read my shirt. "Oh, you have cancer?" I was like, "Yeah," blah blah blah and he's like, "Well I had cancer and I'm just trying to get through it, and here we are." And then another guy joined us and we looked at our watches, okay, we have this many hours to finish this. Because if you don't finish it in 17 hours, or right at midnight it doesn't count. So we're like let's do it so we have an hour to spare in case someone is having a problem with cramps or whatever. It gives you a little extra time. So we're like okay, so we kept our eyes on it. One guy was real good at keeping the pace and we all finished together. It was wonderful.

Ren: So a triathlon consists of?

James: A 2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bike marathon, 26.2-mile ride.

Ren: My gosh. That's a lot.

James: But see, you can't look at it as a unit of a whole, you have to go individual. Like for me I had two laps of a swim, so they were 1.2 on the swim, so okay, I know how many I've got to do. Just do this one. Oh, do one more, I'm done. Move on. And then when you get on the bike you don't think of 112 miles. I know at this point it's this far. Get there and then move over to this point and move over to this, and then the next thing you know... You had to do it twice because there was two loops. You're halfway done, okay, keep going. That's how I operate and how some people don't think of it as just section by section by section.

Ren: Right. Your interest in doing these triathlons was it kind of spurred by your love of running?

James: I liked running, but I like to do things that most people couldn't do. I was always challenged by what people couldn't do, not what they would do, to be honest. I think it's just because I'm a 5'6"-foot person. I'm a small person. I've never been a great athlete. I played sports, but I was never a great athlete. But I would challenge myself to do things everyone else can't do and just do it, and that's where it comes from.

Ren: So let's talk about this weekend, because you have a pretty important job tomorrow. Can you talk a little bit about that?

James: I'm nervous. [Chuckles] You know I've never been in front of everybody like that. I'm not real good at that kind of a thing, but I know how to read instructions and how to do what I'm supposed to do, and I know I'm surrounded by people. It's not a big deal. Don't worry about it, you know.

Ren: So you're leading the Corps?

James: The whole Corps onto the field, with a guide-on that I know very well, because she was my mentor when I was a freshman. She texted me. I'm like "I'll call Patience and we'll see if you can be the guide-on." She said, "Oh, that will be great."

Ren: Neat.

James: Yeah, it will be fun. It will be fun when it's over. [Laughs] Because you want to do it right. You don't want to mess it up, but it's nothing I can't do. It's fine. It will be good.

Ren: You're a cancer survivor. I think there's probably not many things you can't do, and I'm always so impressed by pilots and people that fly, just knowing - I mean it's 62:00just so impressive to me. It always has been ever since...

James: Go watch the movie Sully.

Ren: Yeah, I definitely want to see that.

James: There's more to it than flying, because in the movie they will tell you all about it, going to the FAA and having to deal with all that, which everybody goes. I do not want to have to go that route, because you're always the one that's guilty no matter what.

Ren: The last question for you and I'll get you out of here because I'm sure you want to go to some other events and stuff, but what does Virginia Tech mean to you?

James: What does it mean? To be honest with you it was really the beginning of my life, because high school really meant nothing to me, for whatever reason. I didn't have as many friends. I wasn't that kind of a social person in high school, but when I got to Virginia Tech and college and you're on your own you can open up. You can open yourself up and make friends and not have to worry about everything at home. That was the first part of my life was coming to college, and the four years were the greatest that I ever had. You always want to go 'I can't wait to graduate and move on,' and then you do that and you go I wish I could go back to college because that was really a good time.

Ren: Right, right.

James: I'm sure 95% of people say that.

Ren: I definitely have many times.

James: My brother, my older brother went to college for a long time. I had a job before he did because he was a college person, but I did wish when I graduated that I was still there, because I missed it a lot, so it was a wonderful thing. But it also was the gate that opened the rest of my life for me while I was in college. I learned so many things that had nothing to do with class. It had to do with people and having friends and places... When I 64:00was having trouble here or there I could call and get help from them, because they were going through the same thing too, so it was a wonderful thing.

Ren: Can you talk about your bracelets that you wear there?

James: Like I wear my Ironman because I had my last Ironman was in July. Most people take it off after they finish, but I have it on there because I look at it and I remind myself of what I did. But I can't quit. Like tomorrow morning I'm going to go running because I have another race coming up in October. I wrote in my letter when they asked me about what I do and stuff, I never quit. I always move on to the next one. Some people do one and that's it, one and done, but no, I need the next one because if I don't have something to look forward to I don't know how well I would do. Like I don't need to run tomorrow, but yes I do because I have to follow my schedule. I have to do this, I have to do this, but I use that to look at the Ironman and what I need to do next. Duke is where I go to for my MRIs and they are the one in charge of my medical route, what I'm doing. My choice was to stay there the whole time or be at home and I could do my chemo at home, which was fine. There's no difference. But I go do the MRI and have my Duke doctors make sure I'm doing well. Like one time I had some swelling in my brain and they had to change what I was doing in my chemo, that kind of thing. So I have my Duke and I'm proud of it and every time I see somebody who I know are our ally when we play football I say your school is a wonderful school and right now I love Duke, so I hope for a tie. How's that?

Ren: Right. Yeah.

James: I am so dependent on them right now. So the other one I have, you know, my bracelet with my name, phone numbers and the things, so that's what all that is. Some people who have cancer don't wear these, but I'm proud of it. I'm not afraid to talk.

Ren: Right. That's why I was asking you are you comfortable speaking about it, because I know most people sometimes aren't, you know, and for you to be able to speak so eloquently and passionately about it is so 67:00impressive to me on very many levels. I really admire your courage and everything that you clearly have done in your life, and your commitment to this University and also agreeing to be interviewed. Last question, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you thought I would or that you would like to say for the record?

James: No. It was wonderful. I had a good time too. I'm much better at talking, like when I did the gunfighter speech to the students I'm not a person that picks up a piece of paper and reads to them. I would have a little card that would have four things I want to cover. That's all I need. Tell them about academics. Tell them about be very very careful what you write on Facebook. Be very very careful. I didn't have to deal with that but you guys do, and I was telling them that because where I work at the airlines they have 68:00people that work doing nothing but monitoring social media, and what you would say could get you fired. Stay away. It's okay to have good communications, but be very very careful what you say. And if you're angry at somebody don't write them something and hit 'send'. Just like Coach...I can't think of his name right now, anyway on ESPN, don't hit 'send'.

Ren: Yeah, don't hit send. I teach pre-service teachers that are getting ready to go in the classroom and that's one thing I tell them, like be careful about social media because these school districts and stuff are obviously looking at that. Thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed and telling us your story and your history and your life. I want to get your military title correct and I apologize. Commander?

James: That is correct.

Ren: Awesome. James: Retired.

Ren: Thank you so much.

James: No, thank you and that's for asking me the questions. It's easier for me to go from there.

Ren: Thank you so much.