VT Stories Oral History with Jack Evans, March 3, 2017 (Ms2016-015)

Ren Harman: Good afternoon. Today is March 3, 2017, almost 11:00 a.m. This is Ren Harman, the project manager for VT stories. So the first question I want to ask you is if you can state your name, when you were born and where you were born.

Jack Evans: My name is Jack Evans. I was born September 30, 1962 and I was born in Pomona, California.

Ren: So Jack we're featuring as kind of a featured faculty for VT Stories, so if you can give your degrees that you earned from Virginia Tech and your current title.

Jack: Okay. I have a master's degree in education and I also have a doctorate in education. My new title of a couple, three, four days ago is Director of

Ren: Okay. All right, cool. And in full disclosure, for any listeners, Jack was my advisor, mentor, boss--

Jack: Yep. All of the above.

Ren: All of the above for my four years of undergraduate education here at Virginia Tech. So let's just get started. Can you tell me a little bit about where and how you were raised, just tell me a little bit about your family?

Jack: Gosh. So I'm a first generation college student. So my father was a mechanic. He's retired, still alive. And my mother was a secretary. And I know that term's not used anymore, but that's what she was at the time. And so we were always...we were lower...lower, lower, lower bottom middle class, 2:00stretching it. Would be a stretch.

Ren: Right.

Jack: Mom always had the importance of education in her mind everywhere we...every time we moved somewhere, so we always lived in areas, socioeconomically, that we couldn't afford to live in, because that's where the good schools were. And so we went to, quote, unquote, "good schools" and we were the poor people.

Ren: And where...was this in Reno?

Jack: This was...so again, I started out in California. We moved from Southern California when I was in kindergarten. I take that back, first grade. And we then moved to Colorado Springs. And we stayed in Colorado Springs until I was 15, 16 years old. Then we moved to Reno, Nevada, and that's where I finished high school and I got my undergraduate degree, and then I moved out here to Virginia.

Ren: Do you have any brothers or sisters?

Jack: I have two brothers. I'm the middle boy. I have an older brother who still lives, we think, in Nevada somewhere, and my younger brother lives in Radford. He moved out here about ten years ago. And my mother lives out here now as well.

Ren: So what was it like growing up in the middle between two boys?

Jack: It was interesting because I don't think--which may sound a little odd--there wasn't a lot of connection between myself and my older brother and myself and my younger brother, so I just kind of floated out there all by myself, so to speak--

Ren: Did your own thing.

Jack: And had, as weird or wrong as it may sound, I think I was closer to my friends than my brothers at that point in time. And I'm much closer with my 4:00younger brother now. We're actually pretty good friends. My older brother has all sorts of issues, and he's kind of divorced himself from the entire family.

Ren: Oh, okay, all right. So where did you attend college for your undergraduate?

Jack: My undergraduate degree, you know, again, growing up in Reno, Nevada, at that point in time there were only two universities in the entire state of Nevada, one in Las Vegas and one in Reno. I lived in Reno, so--and, you know, again, my dad was a mechanic and Mom was a secretary, so I wasn't going to a private school that cost $50,000 a year.

Ren: Right.

Jack: And so I went to University of Nevada Reno because it was in my back yard, and I made it through with Pell grants and working part-time jobs.

Ren: What was your--without getting yourself in trouble--what was your four 5:00years of undergraduate education like?

Jack: Ai-yai-yai.

Ren: What was your major?

Jack: My major was biology. So I started out college as a wildlife management major, not knowing anything about what that meant, but it sounded really cool, and I was an outdoorsman, so I figured, you know, what better to--I love being outside anyway, so I'm going to do this.

My very, very, very first course in college was Freshman Biology, and it took me about 37 seconds to change my major from wildlife management to biology just because I thought it was so cool. Now...so that was my major as an undergraduate. Academically, things weren't pretty my first two years. And part of it, I would suggest, is the fact that I was a first generation student.

I had no idea what college was all about and so forth and so on. The rationale is I was just wide open. I was like a lot of those 17, 18-year-old boys that come here, right?

Ren: Right.

Jack: They've got two things on their mind: beer and girls.

Ren: [Laughs.]

Jack: And that's pretty much where I was until I started my junior year and finally pulled my head out of my keister and said, you know, if I don't start getting good grades I'm going to be asking people if they want to super size their order.

Ren: Right. [Laughs.] What was the emphasis on college? You said obviously your mother was really an advocate for you guys getting a good education. Were your mother and father both kind of like Jack, college, go to college?

Jack: No. My father...the only thing important to my father was me being a professional athlete. When he was coming along, he came about as close as you 7:00can possibly come to being a professional baseball player.

He was like the last person cut from the roster. And so he wanted to live vicariously through his kids. And so my older brother, the very first present any of us got was a baseball bat. And for whatever reason, I was fairly talented with baseball. And I loved the game, and I played it, and I played it, and played it.

And no one ever said the word college in my house. The only reason, really, that I ended up going to college is because a couple of my buddies in high school went to the community college. I figured, eh, I'll go hang out with them, right? And so it was interesting. My father placed all the emphasis in athletics and didn't give a rat's patootie about education at all.

Mom was on the other side of the fence. But when you're young and you're getting 8:00all your kudos from your dad saying, oh, this is so--you're going to be great, blah-blah-blah, and Mom's more interested in whether or not I can do fractions, you know, let me throw this ball again, I think this is a better idea.

Ren: Right, right. So did you play in college?

Jack: Yeah. And never...so...and that's interesting in itself. So when I got into high school, I lost a lot of that drive, that desire to be an athlete.

Ren: Do you think you were burned out by that point?

Jack: That's a good question. I don't think I was burned out. One of the things that happened is when we moved from Colorado to Reno, I lost a lot of confidence 9:00in me because, you know, here's a, you know, Colorado was the place I grew up.

I knew everybody. And then I got put in this brand new environment. It's like holy crap, I don't know anybody, I don't feel good about what I can do, so forth and so on. And so it kind of fell by the wayside for that reason. When I was a senior in high school I started getting back into it a little bit. I started pole vaulting again, which is what I used to do--one of the things I used to do in Colorado.

Ren: I didn't know that.

Jack: And so I pole vaulted my junior and senior year, actually, in high school. And my career came to an abrupt end because I was in practice--I think it was at the beginning of the season of my senior year, and I was doing a practice run, and my pole snapped. I was in midair and it snapped.

And that was that. I was gun shy after that. Every time I grabbed the pole, 10:00every time I bent it I thought it was going to break, and so my career was pretty much over.

Ren: So how were you transplanted to the state of Virginia?

Jack: Chasing women.

Ren: [Laughs.]

Jack: So my wife is from Riner, Virginia, and she went to William & Mary as an undergraduate. One of my best friend's sisters also went to William & Mary. My wife and Betsy were in the same sorority. And so when Betsy graduated, she brought like five or six of her sorority sisters out to Reno, and Mary and I met that way. She was still an undergraduate at William & Mary, so she came back here and we had a long distance relationship for a couple years, until I graduated from UNR and then I moved out here, and the rest is history, so to speak.

Ren: So to speak, right. So what year was that when you moved to Virginia, do you remember?

Jack: Wow. I'm pretty sure it was 19...it was either 1985 or 1986.

Ren: So what did you do in the meantime between your moving out here and then when you started working here and then so on?

Jack: Okay. So when I first came out here, I knew no one. And one of my professors at UNR asked me--during the summer I was doing undergraduate research with him, actually--he said Jack, what are you doing after you finish up this project? And I said, well, I'm going to go out to Virginia Tech and I'm not sure what I'm going to do there. I'm going to look for a job. My girlfriend lives out that way, and so we'll see what happens.

He goes, oh-ho, you're going to Virginia Tech. He said, well, when you get there, 12:00I want you to look somebody up. I want you to look up Dr. Cranford. He said, he's a mammalogist. He doesn't want to do what you want to do, but I know him, he'll be a good connection. Tell him I sent you.

And so I came out here and I knocked on Dr. Cranford's door, and we sat down and we talked, and I told him who sent me here. And he asked me what I wanted to do with my life, and I said, well, I'm really interested in aquatic insects and fishes and stuff, and he looked at me and said you're crazy, but I know some other crazy people. And he took me, he walked me across campus to Price Hall, the Entomology Department, and five minutes later I had a job.

Ren: Wow. That's awesome.

Jack: Yeah, so it was pretty cool.

Ren: What was your first memory stepping onto this campus?

Jack: It's one of those things, as corny as it sounds, it's kind of a love at first sight thing. I mean, I walked on this campus--and this was in the early '80s when Mary and I were still dating, and she just thought she'd bring me here one day 13:00to check the place out.

Ren: Right.

Jack: And I got on campus, it was like holy cow, this is the coolest place in the world! And at that moment I said as soon as I graduate, I'm out here. And I've been here pretty much ever since.

Ren: Ever since.

Jack: Yeah.

Ren: So what was your--you finished your master's degree in '98, is that correct?

Jack: I think so.

Ren: Okay. My little research. What was that process like?

Jack: It was interesting.

Ren: Because you were working at the same time, right, here?

Jack: Yeah. So I was doing some--for the master's degree I wasn't working here. I was actually an environmental consultant when I was working on my master's. And I started saying okay, I really need to get more education experience.

So I quit that job while I was still going to school and I started as an 14:00instructional aid at the Reno High School--Reno High School--Blacksburg High School. And so I juggled that with classes, and I had two kids at that point in time, and so--whoosh-whoosh-whoosh-whoosh-whoosh--you know, you're juggling all this stuff.

And I loved my educational experience. I think it was phenomenal. Most of my problem, when I got back into school, was the technology left me behind a long time ago. When I was an undergraduate, I'd never even seen a computer. When I started as a graduate student, you know, I remember walking--and I think Dr. Garrison was one of my very first classes--and he said, well, we're doing, you know, everything will be on email, and I'm like oh my god, what is email?

It's like I don't even know how to turn a computer on, let alone do I own one. 15:00So once I caught up with the technology after the first semester, everything was great. So I was in that program, I think, a year and a half, maybe two years, I can't remember. And wanted to apply to the public schools as a biology teacher in the high schools, and I couldn't find a job to save my life, for whatever reason.

And a job opened up at Virginia's Explorer Park, which is now defunct. But at the time they wanted an environmental education director, and so I applied for that and I got that position. I did that for a couple years. And in the back of my mind I was always saying, well, how can I get back on campus? So I'm watching the job board all the time. And they had a position opened up in this department for an academic advisor. I said sweet, this is my chance. And I applied for that 16:00position and--

Ren: What year was that, do you remember?

Jack: It had to be '99 or 2000, because I'm pretty sure I started the day before classes started in 2000. And I was interviewed by the then department head, Dr. Joe Cowles, Dr. George Simmons, Susan Haymore, and Dee Lee, believe it or not. I can still remember the interview like it was yesterday. And for whatever reason, you know, they decided that I passed.

Ren: Right.

Jack: And here I am. And so I came as an advisor, and got a couple promotions. And at that point in time it's like, you know, I always knew I wanted to go back and get my doctorate, so I started that ball rolling, and found out, it's like wow, you know, Tech's going to pay for a couple of my...I can do classes for free.

So I can do two classes a semester, still work, still take care of my family-- whoosh-whoosh-whoosh-whoosh-whoosh--

Ren: Juggling, right.

Jack: --and juggle all sorts of stuff. It's like sweet, this is perfect for me. And so, you know, again, that's what I did. And it really just kind of worked out for me.

Ren: So during your time through your master's, and you've mentioned a lot of people that I know, and probably a lot of people that listen to this will know, but what are some notable professors and just really mentors that you had?

Jack: Shoo. Almost too many to count. Again, Dr. Garrison was one of the first courses I had as a graduate student. And I still remember that first day because what we did in the classroom was so incredibly dramatically different than my undergraduate experience, it was just like whoo-oo!

Ren: [Laughs.]

Jack: You felt you were in heaven, you have arrived.

Ren: Right, right.

Jack: And in my opinion, that was really what education was all about. Education for me is not somebody with a white coat standing up there and yapping for 45 minutes, but education is what we're doing right now, right? It's sitting down and having a conversation, talking about action potentials or whatever the topic of the day is. And so that first class I had with Dr. Garrison, it's like wow, that really turned the switch for me.

Ren: And for people who don't know, Jim Garrison, the School of Education professor, been there for many years.

Jack: He's been there for a while.

Ren: Right. Some others?

Jack: Dr. Doolittle, Peter Doolittle, his courses were phenomenal. I really enjoyed his courses, really got a lot out of his courses.

Terry Wildman, I had some courses with him. I loved those courses. Sue Magliaro, 19:00Dr. Mag. I don't think she'll remember this, but I had her as a graduate student when I was working on my master's and loved her courses.

One of the nice things, in my humble opinion, about the School of Ed when I went through was everybody at least that I came into contact with professor-wise, they were all on the same page, and they all...you know, obviously very smart folks over there, but they--and obviously understood education and the best way to do it. And so it was just a wonderful, wonderful experience.

I mean, there was one...I only had one professor, whose name shall go nameless, that I didn't think was on the same page, and that person is not at Virginia Tech anymore.

Ren: Nice. Can you talk a little bit about what Dr. George Simmons has meant to you?

Jack: Oh, wow, boy, I completely forgot about a mentor. If there was ever a 20:00mentor, it's George, it's Dr. Simmons. I can't even start on the number of things I learned from that man, and what he did for me in my experience here and helped me get to where I am today. Without his tutelage, I don't think it ever would have happened. Gosh, I really just don't even know where to start. I still meet up with Dr. Simmons. We try to have lunch every once in a while.

He was on the hiring committee that hired me. I still remember the questions that he threw at me at the interview, and this was what, 15 years ago or something. Mr. Evans, what would you do if...? And he would give me these educational scenarios, and I would pop off some answers, and he would look at me, and you know how George, he would--

Ren: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: He would tap his lip and he'd go, I like that. I like that. That's a good answer. And Dr. Cowles, the department head, every time George would ask a question, Dr. Cowles would sit up and look at him and go, George, where do you get these things? And so yeah, it was...he's phenomenal.

Ren: So he was a professor in the Biology Department for many years, and was voted favorite professor for--

Jack: Almost every single year.

Ren: --almost every single year, yeah. I mean, I had him. I mean, he probably touched and taught hundreds of thousands of students, I'd say.

Jack: When I was working on my doctorate--and this, I believe, was in one of Dr. Doolittle's courses--I had to interview a faculty member and then go in and sit in on their classes. And I knew George forever, so I said, hey, George, can I interview you? He said oh, yeah, sure. And I said also I've got to sit in your class, I hope you don't mind.

And I'm an old man. I've been to enough courses in my life, probably more than 22:00most folks, and George's course--this is a freshman level course--and I got there about 20 minutes early and I sat down in the back so I could see how it all unfolded.

George would always get there early so he could chat with folks. And I have...it's a rare day when you see a freshman level course that doesn't have iClickers or any reason for motivating factor bringing the kids into the class. That class was at capacity. Nobody ever came in late. Everybody always came in early and there was never, ever an empty seat in his courses.

Ren: You know, I can remember being a terrified second semester undergrad bio major and walking into the GLC auditorium over there.

And it's before they remodeled it, so the lights were really dim. And, you know, the first day of class, like before and after class the line of students wanting to speak with Dr. Simmons, even for five minutes.

Jack: Yep, yep.

Ren: And luckily, through you and through your guidance, I got to do some TA work for him, some teaching assistant work for him. And I always loved giving his exams because he would always give me the cool dry bags that he would use for camping and stuff.

Jack: Yeah. [Laughs.]

Ren: That's what his exams and his Scantron sheets are.

Jack: Yeah. That's where all his stuff came, right.

Ren: And they were always like double wrapped in Kroger grocery bags.

Jack: Yep.

Ren: And we would hand them out. But yeah, I mean, even my own experiences taking his class and then later kind of doing some work, just helping him out on the side when I was working with you, man, he's definitely a special person, for sure.

Jack: When I first started here, he was teaching the seminar courses that I eventually took over.

And my first semester here he came in one day and said, Mr. Evans, I would like 24:00you to join me in the seminar course this semester. He said I don't want you to do anything, I just want you to sit in the back and take it all in. I said yes, sir, I will be glad to be there. So that was my first experience to oh my gosh, there's nobody better at the podium than Dr. Simmons. I mean, I've heard a lot of people talk on this campus, and hardly nobody can hold a candle to him.

And so I'm going through most of the semester and I'm thinking wow, this guy's incredible. Then one day towards the end of the semester he came up to me and said, Mr. Evans, I would like you to give the next lecture for this course. And one, I was honored that he would ask me to do such a thing, but two, I was terrified. It was like oh my god, how can I even hold a candle to what this man does on the stage or behind the podium?

I was like, crap. And so I did it. And George's office actually was right next door. And so I gave my talk. And he actually left the classroom. He listened to everything I had to say, but he left before I did. And so I got back to my office and I looked in and George was in his office, and so I'm just...I waited in my office for about an hour, waiting for him to come in and say, Mr. Evans, I think you did an okay job, or you should do this. But he wouldn't come in.

And so finally I couldn't handle it anymore and I went in. I said, Dr. Simmons, did I do okay? Was everything okay? And he just laughed and shook his head and said yeah, Mr. Evans, you did a fine job, and I think--he said we'll invite you back. You can do this again.

Ren: When he invited you to that class, do you think he saw--I mean, he had to 26:00see something. I think he saw something in you that he was going to hand the reins of that--and for people who don't know, this class is for incoming--you can explain it better than I can.

Jack: Yeah, so this is a first year experience course, right? And so this course is designed to do two things. One is open up all the eyes to everybody that there's more to being a biologist than going to med school.

Ren: Med school, right.

Jack: And two is to kind of show them the ways of the world and how to be a successful college student, so forth and so on. And so to answer your question, I would say yeah, I think for some reason George saw something in me that made him think I'd be a good fit for that class. So he probably retired about five years after he hired me, and I took the course over, and the rest is history, so to speak.

Ren: And he stayed on and taught for years.

Jack: Yeah, he stayed on for another probably...gosh, probably eight or nine years teaching Freshman Biology, and he loved it. And he was really, really, really, really, really good at it.

Ren: Yeah, really good at it.

Jack: I learned a bunch of stuff, what to do and what not to do.

Ren: I used to love just coming by here and kind of dropping in--this is when he had the office in the hallway, which was basically like the size of a closet.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, it was.

Ren: And you always knew he was there 'cause his bicycle was parked out front.

Jack: Yep, the bicycle was parked.

Ren: And I would just go there and just, you know, just talk to him and just look at the pictures on his walls, and the amount of awards and stuff.

Jack: Yeah, he is a special, unique individual.

Ren: He really is. Can we talk about...well, we've talked about a lot of these, but maybe some of your favorite memories or experiences through your time here?

Jack: Wow. Gosh. I mean, certainly almost everything I did with Dr. Simmons is right in there.

Finishing and finally defending my doctorate was a huge--and we actually, this used to be a conference room, even though it's my office now, and so this is where I defended. And so my committee was sitting in here and they said okay, Jack, go step outside so we can converse. It's like okay. And so I'm sitting out there sweating, going oh my god, I don't know if this is going to happen. And Dr. Magliaro opened the door and said, Dr. Evans, will you come in, please. Whoo! We're done, we're done.

Ren: Yeah. [Laughs.]

Jack: I mean, and that was, you know, again, it was a...I had a really good experience working on my doctorate, working here with everybody. The students I've met are just part of--and you're a great example, right?

Ren: Thank you.

Jack: You know, I've finally gotten to the point where, you know, you're Dr. 29:00Harman, and you were what, an 18-year-old kid--

Ren: Scared to death. [Laughs.]

Jack: --when you came in. So, I mean, all these...I love what I do, so I'm really, really fortunate.

Ren: So the reverse, opposite side of that question, we can talk about anything, some difficult experiences.

Jack: Oh, gosh. Yeah, there's an easy answer to that one. Yeah, that was... There was a couple days here that I'll never forget, and that day was one of them. I still remember sitting in my office with a young lady, and we were talking about academic stuff, and she was really, really scared. She goes, Dr. Evans, have you heard about that shooting on campus? And I had no clue what was going on. And she said I'm really, really scared to go out to my car; will you walk me out to my car? I said, yeah, sure, no problem. So I walked her out to her car and she drove away.

And I came back into my office, and I sat down, and my phone rang, and it was my 30:00wife, who is a public school teacher right down the street. And she said, Jack, what in the world is going on on campus? And I said, I don't know what you're talking about. And she goes, we're on lockdown. The public schools were already locked down. And I opened my window and I looked out, students were walking around. It's like there's nothing going on around here.

And then we heard the gunshots, and just from the buzz of the students we found out what was going on. So at that point Dr. Cranford and I went from floor to floor in this entire building, got the students out in the hallways, put them in--locked them in rooms, actually, and once we cleared all the hallways we were then sentinels. I sat right out here in the lobby watching the doors on both sides, waiting for something to happen, and Cranford was doing the same thing at the other couple of floors.

Once things started to settle down, both Cranford and I walked out on the veranda out here and we looked down, and there were probably 20-ish ambulances lined up. And Dr. Cranford... [Choking up?] ...looked at me and he said, ambulances don't park and wait for live people. And so that was a shitty day. I went to some funerals after that, which I've never seen someone grieve as much as one of my student's mothers at the viewing. It was absolutely horrible.

But one of my sayings is, it is what it is, right? And we live and learn and we move forward, and it's just the way it is.

Ren: Yeah, that's a rough...you know, just a rough time, I think, for everyone.

Jack: Oh, for everybody, yeah.

Ren: [For all] of the college.

Jack: I still remember, you know, for a couple weeks afterwards students walking--there was no noise on campus. Students...everybody was still trying to wrap their brains around what happened. There was no talking. It was just...it was...it was like I was deaf. It was like there was no noise anywhere. And then after a while, you know, once people started healing, things changed. Horrible day.

Ren: Yeah, absolutely. So we'll switch to a more, I guess, positive question. How has your, say your education at Virginia Tech, but also your career, what 33:00has that meant to you and how has that played out throughout your life?

Jack: Boy, my education has really meant everything because the education that I got, just for the level of learning itself, is just, I mean, it is so cool the things I got to experience and got to do and research and so forth and so on. But without that education, I certainly wouldn't be where I am today.

And again, you know, one of the things I tell my students all the time is you got to love what you do. I don't care how much money you make, at the end of the day. You know, I've got two nickels to rub together at the end of the month, and I'm okay with that. Because what's important to me is I can wake up Monday morning and go woo-hoo, I'm going to go to work! As opposed to Monday morning, expletive, expletive, I'm making a ton of money, but I don't like what I do.

I've got friends that are all about how much money they can make, and it's like 34:00I'd much rather be happy at what I do for 12 hours a day.

Ren: Right. If someone just simply says Virginia Tech, what's the first thing you think of?

Jack: Community.

Ren: Community?

Jack: Yeah.

Ren: Okay.

Jack: And that was part of my experience with one of the first--the first time I came on campus. I was standing out--it's amazing I remember these things, go popping back into my memory--I was in front of Burruss Hall and, you know, this is a big place, as we all know.

And I think I was looking for the Entomology Department because I wanted to go check that out. And I didn't know where I was going. So a bus pulls up, and the doors opened, so I just popped in and I said, could you please tell me how to get to Price Hall? And this guy was just incredibly nice, and it's like...

And for whatever reason, that threw me back that everybody was so nice and 35:00willing to help you out here. I was like, okay, cool. That works for me.

Ren: [Laughs.] Right. So let's get into a couple, a set of questions here. What changes have you seen through your time, both as a graduate student and as a faculty member, somebody who's done a lot, a lot of teaching through the years, what changes have you seen over time and what are your thoughts on those?

Jack: Certainly the size of the university, both in biomass and in the infrastructure, is getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. From an educational standpoint, I have a little bit of a problem with that. If I were king for a day there wouldn't be a class on this campus that had more than 25 students in it, right?

Ren: Right.

Jack: But that's not the reality. And so what we have to do is faculty members 36:00that teach ginormous courses like I do--I'm teaching Freshman Biology right now with 225 students in it--and so what I try to do and what my colleagues in this department try to do with these large classes is make them into a bunch of little small classes.

So, for instance, in my class I give what I call a mini lecture. They need to come prepared for whatever we're doing for the day, but I give a little mini lecture for about 15, 20 minutes on topics that I think the students might be struggling with or maybe need a little more explanation. Then they break up into groups of four.

I've got 225 students that break up into groups of four. And they work on activities during the class. I've got a bunch of TAs in the class. But this gives me the opportunity to make the class smaller because now I can go, oh, so Ren, how's it going? And it's like, oh my god, my professor knows who I am.

Ren: [Laughs.] That's cool.

Jack: And so this does two things. One, it makes it smaller. It makes a more conducive learning environment, in my opinion, and hopefully all my students are under the impression that I care about them, which I really do.

Ren: Agreed. Any other changes that you've kind of... So what changes would you like to see, I guess, moving forward?

Jack: You know, I'm... The class size would be my biggest concern. I think we serve the students better if we have smaller classrooms. I mean, as a Ph.D. student you haven't ever been through a class with 225 students.

Ren: No.

Jack: Yeah, well, you and me both.

Ren: Yeah, right.

Jack: So that would be my biggest concern. I think the research that we do on this university is insanely, crazy good.

Ren: Yeah.

Jack: We are starting to get a more pronounced population of instructors, and so 38:00I think that's a good thing, too. And I'm preaching to the choir now. Ph.D.s are funny, right? So we get this little narrow slice of some microcosm somewhere to study, and you get your Ph.D., and you go back into academia, and your department head hands you a freshman biology book and says go teach.

They don't have any idea, for the most part, what they're doing, so what they rely on is, well, this is how I was taught when I was an undergraduate. And so now we're getting away from that because my colleagues that are instructors in this department actually have some knowledge of pedagogy and how to approach students.

And we've also got certificate programs here on campus that allow the faculty to 39:00come in to learn best practices and pedagogical stuff. And so I think that's a really good thing. So we've got really good researchers in my department, and in my opinion we've got really good instructors as well, and so that's kind of a win-win for the students.

Ren: Yeah. I always said that--and I'm not just saying this because you're sitting in front of me--but I always said that a lot of the professors that I had through my four years of undergraduate education in the Biology Department were really good. And I would hear some of my friends in other departments kind of, you know, maybe not say the nicest things about their professors.

And I was really lucky. And I knew that there was a sense of training of these professors, whether they're tenure track faculty members or they're instructors, they have some commitment to being good teachers, that they can teach, whether it be 200 students or 50 students.

I think my smallest class in biology was probably like 40 or 50, I would say, and that was probably senior year. But I definitely think that they definitely knew how to teach. And I really commend, obviously, you and everyone else in this department for that because oftentimes I think that's lost in the mix. You can have--

Jack: Yeah, I agree.

Ren: --you know, you can have a degree from the best university with the best research profile, but when it comes to teaching students it's an entirely different ball game.

Jack: Yep, it is a different ball game, indeed. And I would agree with you. And like I said earlier, I've heard a lot of people give talks or perform in the classroom and do what they do, and it's like almost every time I go I'm just pleasantly surprised. It's like wow, you know, these guys are crazy good researchers but, you know, obviously still care about their students when they get into the classroom, so I think that's a really good thing.

Ren: Yeah, absolutely. So what would you like people to know about you?

Jack: Wow. Gosh. I always have a problem with those kind of question. I can actually still remember one of my interview questions from 15, 16 years ago. Dee Lee asked me, said okay, now this is the time in the interview for you to brag about you. And I just looked and I said I can't, that's not the way. That's not the way.

Ren: And it's not, but I want to try to pull it out of you. [Laughs.]

Jack: I would like to think that my students know that I care about them. And it gets a lot of laughs from my students, but I always say I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Ren: [Laughs.]

Jack: And I hope that most of them truly believe that and truly understand. And certainly there are some students that just don't want to have anything to do with you, 42:00and I can understand that, to a degree.

But the students that do want my help, I feel pretty comfortable that they feel comfortable in coming to see me and knowing that I'll help them to the best of my ability.

Ren: What would you estimate how many students you've taught in that orientation seminar class?

Jack: Oh, my gosh.

Ren: Over the years.

Jack: That's crazy. So I've been teaching that for--let's say I've been doing it for a decade, and we get anywhere between 300 and 500 per semester in there, so yeah, those numbers add up pretty quickly. So probably anywhere between three and five K have come through there. And the Freshman Biology is, you know, my typical class is about two and a quarter, and I've been doing that for four or five years, so there's been a...I've... [Laughs.]

Ren: A lot of people.

Jack: Yeah, a lot of people have crossed paths with me for whatever reason.

Ren: Right. This is a pretty, kind of a big question, but what would you like people to know about Virginia Tech, or maybe any misconceptions or things that you would just like to say about both your academic home and the place where you've spent your entire career, I guess you could say, in a way?

Jack: I think that--and of course I'm biased because I love this place--but I think when folks come here for an education, they're going to get the best education that you can get. And this place has the potential to change your life. It really does. And it really has mine. It's absolutely changed my life and allowed me to get out of my life exactly what I wanted to get out of my life.

I mean, I was educated here, I work here, my kids were born and raised here. I 44:00mean, I always tell folks, when I do Hokie Focus or any of those kind of things where we're talking to potential students, is that when I die, if I go to heaven, it's going to look a lot like this place because Virginia Tech and the surrounding area has everything that I want out of my life.

I introduce myself as an overeducated good old boy, and there's a lot of truth to that. So on this campus I can get all of the intellectual stimulation I would ever want in my life, and five minutes from now I can have my boat trailered and be in the water going fishing. And not to mention what this place has been like to raise children.

I mean, it's...you couldn't ask for a better place to be. My doors on my house 45:00haven't been locked in 25 years. They're not locked right now. If you want to stop by my house for a beer, they're in the refrigerator. I tell all my neighbors, when new neighbors move into the neighborhood, that if they--because I have a pickup truck--if they ever want to borrow my truck, the keys are in it. Alls you got to do is leave me a note on the door. This is Hokie's neighborhood, right? And it's the way I like to do life, so it's perfect.

Ren: Do you still bike?

Jack: Not as much as I'd like to. I still have my bike. It's a funny question. So that bicycle got me through my undergraduate career, believe it or now.

Ren: Wow.

Jack: And I put it in a box and flew it to Roanoke when I got here, and I still ride that thing every once in a while.

So when George, when Dr. Simmons was still here, 'cause he used to give a lot of grief--

Ren: Oh, yeah.

Jack: --oh, don't drive. I don't see your bicycle anywhere. It's like, oh crap. And so I started riding it every day, and I was pretty religious about it for a long time.

Ren: My senior year, the first time he saw me--'cause I had that huge truck--the first time he saw it, it was this, like, 30 minute lecture from him.

Jack: [Laughs.]

Ren: And then, you know, I was talking earlier about his exams and the dry bags when he would go camping. And I remember one time he was giving an exam over there in Litton-Reaves, and it was, I mean, it was one of Blacksburg winters. I think it was probably '08, '09.

Jack: Yeah, oh my gosh.

Ren: It was brutal. And he rolls in, you know, looks like an Eskimo, got snow caked on his glasses, all over his face, and, you know, we finished the exam and, you know, he packs up and pedals off. And at this point he was probably in his 70s.

Jack: Oh, yeah, he was in his 70s.

Ren: And, you know, just speaking of bicycling, you know, I always think about him. And I want to say every time I see a biker in town I think about you and 47:00him and the bicycling.

Jack: But he used to--'cause I remember those days as well, 'cause those days it's like who cares, I'm taking the truck to work. And here comes George. And I'm thinking okay, I'm in my 40s, there's George that's 70 something years old, and he's riding his bicycle in this crazy weather. And then I would get there and, you know, he's dripping wet and freezing to death. Dr. Evans, I don't see your bicycle anywhere. It's like oh my god, I've got to ride my bicycle in this stuff, too?

Ren: [Laughs.] That's hilarious. What a great man. So I guess the last question is, is there anything I haven't asked you that you want to say, or anything you thought I'd ask, anything you want to add? Kind of an open question for you.

Jack: To answer your question, no. That was a very inclusive interview, Dr. Harman.

Ren: Thank you. Very good. Well, I just want to say again, not 'cause you're sitting in front of me, but for the sake of the recording, I, probably along with thousands, tens of thousands students, would not be where I am, for sure.

And I know this picture behind us here, those folks on that wall, wouldn't be where they are without you because, as I said earlier, you and a lot of people in this department, but specifically you--and I've asked people that I've taught in the School of Education as a graduate student, you know, if they come from science, like you know Jack Evans? Like oh, my god, I love Jack.

And it's because you really care about your students, and you really care about not just whether they pass your class or whether they do good in your class, but that you care about are they having a hard time, you know, paying their tuition bills, are they having a problem with a friend or anything. But I think you really have this ethics of care that I know you and I were probably taught about being a good teacher.

And I think that that's missing sometimes, but on this--

Jack: Yeah, I would agree. I would agree.

Ren: But on this campus, you know, you are definitely, I think, a treasure for that, and to care about your students. So I'm going to stop giving you compliments and just thank you.

Jack: [Laughs.] My head will get too big. Won't be able to get out the door.

Ren: So thank you, Dr. Jack Evans, for sitting down and talking with us. I really appreciate it, man.

Jack: Oh, you're welcome.

Ren: Thank you so much.

Jack: Appreciate it.

Ren: It was great.

Jack: It was.