VT Stories Oral History with Jerry Hulick, June 8, 2018

Ren Harman: Good morning. This is Ren Harman, the Project Director for VT Stories. Today is June 8, 2018 at about 9:15 AM. We are in the Holtzman Alumni Center on the campus of Virginia Tech with a very special guest with us. This is the only time I will prompt you, if you could just state in a complete sentence my name is, when you were born and where you were born.

Jerry Hulick: My name is Jerry Hulick. I was born March 12, 1951 in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Ren: What years did you attend Virginia Tech?

Jerry: I started in the fall of 1969 and graduated in 1973.

Ren: And your major?

Jerry: Political science.

Ren: Thank you. So you were born in Albuquerque?

Jerry: Yes.

Ren: Did you grow up there?

Jerry: No. I was only there a few years and my father was a leader in the National Rural Letter Carriers Association, carried mail on a rural route. He 1:00was selected president of the Rural Carriers and so we moved to Washington, DC and lived in Arlington a couple of years. He could have succeeded himself. He chose to move back to New Mexico. We moved back to New Mexico and we were there six months and Headquarters Postal Service at that time was the Post Office Department and made an offer to him and we moved back to DC after six months, and then I was there from about age 5 on and grew up in Northern Virginia in the Alexandria area.

Ren: When you were moving kind of back and forth between DC and New Mexico I know you were quite young but what do you remember about that time?

Jerry: The biggest thing I remember is that we had a boxer dog. I had to give the dog up when we moved back east but I was very young. I don't think I knew the magnitude of my father's career at that point in time because I was so young. And although I have strong roots still and a lot of family in New Mexico 2:00and I go back on a regular basis I grew up in Alexandria and that's really more my home. I had job offers after graduating from Tech to go to other places and I wanted to go back to the Washington, DC area because I enjoy it. Being in political science there's a few things that go in that area having to do with politics so it's always somewhat fascinating for me too.

Ren: So at the age of 5 you were growing up in Alexandria. Can you just talk about like growing up, your early life, brothers, sisters, your friends, things you did?

Jerry: My mother died when I was 11 year old and so my father remarried and so I had a stepbrother and sister, a full brother, and then together they have another daughter so she's my half-sister. So as a blended family we lived on the west east of Alexandria. I was in the second to last class of Hammond High 3:00School where they built T. C. Williams and then they merged with the two high schools to T. C. Williams. And T. C. Williams if you will remember was Remember the Titans the movie about Gerry Bertier who was basically in a car accident, all-American state football player. Well Gerry used to date my sister and so Gerry and a lot of the guys around those teams I knew personally, so it was always kind of interesting growing up in Alexandria. And Alexandria has its own transition because that was during a time when they were trying to get racial equality in the schools and all those kinds of things. It was also around that same time when I was in grade school that President Kennedy was shot and that was such a big issue. Some of our biggest leaders during that time as I was growing up that we saw that kind of sorrow and drama that was taking place. It 4:00was very interesting times.

I remember too in '62 being at a house and we had a congressman that lived across from us. They had the big march in Washington where Martin Luther King made his very famous speech, and so there were a lot of celebrities at this congressman's house. I sat on the porch with Bob Dylan and he strums the guitar and the only thing that was going through my mind is he was totally unkept. He invited us to go to a concert. He gave us tickets to go to a concert at the armory. Now remember I'm just 12 or 13 years old at this point, actually 11 or 12 I guess, and I said to my brother, "Why would we do that? Who is this guy?" but it was Bob Dylan at the time. We got to meet Debbie Reynolds and Charlton Heston and a bunch of others that were there, and because there were so many 5:00congressmen in our neighborhood these kinds of things were going on. My father's role in the postal service continued into positions that we got exposed to in a lot of areas that were not typical growing up in the Washington, DC area and things like that, but it was pretty interesting times.

Ren: Can I ask you about your mother's death when you were 11 you said? That had to be pretty difficult.

Jerry: Yes. She dealt with cancer starting at about the age of 28, so for almost most of my life she was dealing with cancer in some form. And again, I think I was assimilating, I knew she was sick. I don't think I had a full understanding of it. Once she passed away that was kind of the real reality check, and at that point in time my dad kind of lived with the whole concept that she was probably 6:00terminal for years and didn't talk to anybody or tell anybody, because back then you didn't talk about it.

Ren: Right.

Jerry: And you didn't necessarily deal with it as a family, and so after she passed he took several weeks off and we literally drove from the East Coast back to Albuquerque and spent time with family, because we had a funeral in Northern Virginia and then another one back in Albuquerque where she is buried. Again, it was a difficult time. To this day I think it's one of the reasons why I tend to be more independent because you just have to compensate and sometimes you've got to do things and not be so led. My father remarried fairly quickly and so then we were in the blended family and that has its own issues of everybody coming together. I roomed with my stepbrother. We shared a room and so even to this day we maintained a fairly close relationship with the whole family.

Ren: That's wonderful. Where did you attend high school?

Jerry: At Francis Hammond and I was the second to the last class.

Ren: What kind of things were you interested in in high school?

Jerry: I was involved in student leadership, but probably -- one of the rules that they had in the high school is that you could only be president of one organization because they wanted to kind of spread around leadership amongst people, and I ran to be president of the student class of the school and was a runner up in that. But that opened it up and I had been very very involved with the Interact Club which is the service club that keys off of Rotary International, and it was kind of Interact with Kiwanis so the key club in high school and I ended up being president of the Interact Club so I was very involved in my four years there with the Service Club. It's always been, for 8:00whatever reason it's just [inbredded] in who I am, kind of this serving spirit and giving back and the feeling that you get when you're helping people, so the Interact Club was a big part of what I did.

Ren: Jumping ahead just a little bit, but looking back on your life and thinking about this devotion of service, both as a high school student and maybe even before that and obviously what you've done at Virginia Tech and then afterwards, have you ever kind of pinpointed where this heart for service comes from? Have you ever thought about that?

Jerry: No, really to pinpoint it, because I was engaged always from Cub Scouts on. I was engaged with it forever and I guess part of it may stem from my mother being ill and losing my mother, so you realize the importance of people and that 9:00people make a difference and it's a fragile thing. It could be one thing one day. We don't take the time to care for each other like we should. That's clearly probably a component of it. I was not, t here's so many different ways that you can go in high school as far as things you get involved with. I had some involvement in sports but I was not a big kid, so I ended up gravitating ultimately to track. But I didn't travel with the sports crowd a lot of my good friends were there and I didn't travel with the band crowd and the various different groups that are within the group. I just tended to be involved in the service clubs and that kind of thing.

Ren: Do you think your father or your mother or your stepmother did they instill 10:00any of those values?

Jerry: I mean I think values were instilled early on. You know my mother was a good person in hospitality. She cared for people and you could see that, and I think we just were involved in various different things during the course of our lives, very active in my church as well, and so that's just a natural component for me. To pinpoint it that's a great question. I don't know that I've ever thought why am I the way I am, because I'm not only very interested in community-based service and serving people and having that serving spirit, which is you know the essence I think ultimately of Christianity and in our beliefs, but I've gone over to the other side of being zealot about encouraging other people to do the same thing.

Ren: What religious tradition were you raised in?

Jerry: I was raised initially in a Methodist church and then we transferred to a 11:00Presbyterian church. And then earlier on, fairly early as a young person became an elder in the church and very active in the church. Then our church split off and I was involved in helping to build the new church and negotiating all the contracts and building and loans and all that because of my financial background, so I was very active with the church.

Ren: The reason I was kind of asking this is because I thought there was a religious tradition in there somewhere. Not saying you can't be serviceable and be interested in service, but a lot of times and especially folks of your generation a lot of that came from growing up in a church. That's why I was asking those questions.

Jerry: Again that was a factor. That was a very involved youth group and that was the group that I went with. A lot of my good friends in high school, because we had a very active youth choir a lot of my friends in high school that were not going to church became a part of our youth group, and so it was just a 12:00different group and so we spent a lot of time together.

Ren: When you were in high school and you kind of first started thinking about college how did Virginia Tech come into the picture?

Jerry: It's interesting because I applied to three schools, UVA, Clemson, and Virginia Tech, and I visited all of them. The only one where I felt like this was the place I wanted to be was Virginia Tech. I got accepted to all three including UVA and decided that I was going to go to Tech. For me it was a great school. My brother had also been involved in Alpha Phi Omega. One of the things I looked at is I found there was an Alpha Phi Omega chapter at Virginia Tech. I knew I was going to get involved in the service fraternity as soon as I got here, which I did in the fall of my freshman year. Plus my brother had been out of state, so it was kind of inferred that you will stay in-state, which is 13:00probably one of the reasons why Tech over Clemson, although I wasn't impressed with what I saw facility-wise at Clemson, so that was part of the issue.

Ren: Well I'm glad you chose Virginia Tech over UVA at least.

Jerry: Yeah, I am too.

Ren: Can you take me to the first day, the first memory that you have of seeing the campus of Virginia Tech? Do you remember that day how you felt, what it looked like? Any memories from that day?

Jerry: Well it's kind of an awesome experience I think when you are coming in. I was ready to go to college and so the dorm life and seeing the dorm I was going to be in I was aligned with a fellow that was in high school with me and so we were roommates the first year.

Ren: Where did you live?

Jerry: In O'Shaughnessy. Back then a lot of the dorms, I mean Lee existed, O'Shaughnessy, Vawter and those and Pritchard, but that was all open for 14:00volleyball and everything else in that whole field, so where Payne and some of those others are didn't exist then. Derring was brand new and so I love to hear about about how they have to do all these retrofits and changes in Derring just to bring it current, and Dietrick Hall was brand new. One of my jobs on campus because I worked most of the time as well was I was on the initial serving lines at Dietrick. And so that was brand new and so when you look back and you see the campus infrastructure now versus what it was then, I mean it was still substantial.

We didn't have the dynasties in some of the sports that we did but it was very different and I was interested enough to want to participate and see those, although I was very involved in intermurals, particularly through the fraternity.

Ren: When you first saw the campus for the first time was that as a freshman? Did you come on a visit?

Jerry: I came on a couple of visits beforehand, sure. It was different, at least from my perspective. It was a decision I made more on my own. I was clearly probably driven down for the visit, but at the same time I've met young people that have probably visited 30 or 40 colleges to make a decision. I visited Clemson and UVA and Tech and pretty much decided that Tech is where I wanted to go.

Ren: And especially kids visiting colleges when they are freshman and sophomores in high school you know. I came to Virginia Tech and like you I kind of made the decision on my own but my brother was an alum and had some other family members that were alum and it was just a decision you just kind of made on your own. It seems to be so different even today and I lived in Pritchard and that's why I always like to ask to see if I can find anyone who also lived in Pritchard.

Jerry: I lived in Pritchard my sophomore year, 5085. I can remember the room number and I don't know why.

Ren: I think I was 3045 I believe, because you could look out our window and see the corner of...

Jerry: I looked into the pit. [Laughs]

Ren: Wonderful. When you came in as a freshman did you know you wanted to major in political science?

Jerry: I came in majoring in biology and chemistry took care of that and then I moved to political science. I wasn't exactly sure what I saw myself for a career, but I always had a passion and interest in political science and politicians and followed that, as well as I have an interest in financial issues. I kind of followed that. I set up a -- probably when I was about 12 set up my first brokerage account. Because of my age it had to be through my father, 17:00so I was following some of the stocks and things like that early on, so I had an interest in finance and an interest in political science. I graduated in political science and then I've been in the business of finance the rest of my life.

Ren: [Laughs] Coming in as a biology major before you changed what was your thought process in selecting that major? Did you want to go to medical school?

Jerry: I just was interested in biology. I had enjoyed those classes in high school. I don't know that I had a vision all the way out of what that meant, but it was just more of a function of an interest where I wanted to at least start at.

Ren: So I graduated as a biology major and I can remember going into my freshman chemistry class in McBride 100. A lot of my friends in college went to George Marshall High school in Vienna I guess, right. They were like the first couple of lessons they knew, they had already had that in high school and I was from a 18:00small town in Southwest Virginia and I just remember like I am lost.

I had to work twice as hard but eventually I kind of got the hang of it and graduated with a degree in biology. Was going to go to medical school and then ended up in grad school, but I can relate to the chemistry struggles as a freshman.

Jerry: Ours was in Davidson.

Ren: Davidson 3.

Jerry: And I have never been in a class that large, whether it was little or no interaction you went, you listened to lectures, you took notes and you took the classes. You know the interest was there but I engaged when I started to get into the political science and then I had almost enough credits in history for a minor. I was actually, my professor toward the tail-end was trying to get me to stay and go to graduate school in history, but I was ready to get out and get into a career. And it's interesting that I saw that professor who is still here, 19:00I guess it's been 45 years now and he's still on campus. He was a young instructor and now he's written several things, but he and I had a great conversation just in the last 12 months where we kind of reconnected.

Ren: So that was my next question, one thing that we really like to talk about in these stories is the idea of mentorship and advising of professors and others to alums. What are some notable professors or advisors that you had that were influential in your career?

Jerry: I always knew him as Dr. Haslam because that's who he was. You didn't call them by their first names, but he was in political science and I ended up doing a couple of independent studies with him. I think he was also my advisor. I am so impressed with the advising process today versus what it was then. 20:00Basically then they just wanted to make sure that you had the appropriate credit hours to graduate. There wasn't a whole lot of advising, but he was influential and we would have great conversations about a lot of the public things, public events that were going on. Larry Shumsky is the history professor that I'm talking about is still here and now Dr. Shumsky. And again, I think because it was participatory as you get to your junior and senior years particularly there's more discussion and team-building and things like that and participatory, so he was a big factor.

But probably one of the biggest persons that really made an impression on me was the dean of Student Affairs, because of my involvement with the councils and being president of the fraternity, he was an honorary in the fraternity and that was Dr. James Dean. And so we had a lot of honoraries and as part of the 21:00pledging process you had to go around and get all the honoraries to sign your pledge book, so early on I got to meet him, T. Marshall Hahn. One of most intimidating experiences early on in my freshman year was to go to the president's office and get him to sign my book and he took it serious. I mean he asked you a lot of questions and wanted to know about you, and so because of that I was able to maintain somewhat of a relationship with him over the many years in different roles. Even when he left and he went to Georgia Pacific and then he came back.

But I would say Dr. Dean, and we had a good enough relationship that I don't know 10 or 15 years after I graduated and I had to get my class ring resized you had to go to dean of Student Affairs to get approval to go back to the ring company. His whole letter back to me was a rhetoric on how could I let myself go and gain that kind of weight and all this kind of thing, so clearly it was a personal relationship around that of a student.

Ren: Right, right. So when you were entering as a freshman you were kind of coming in of that class of where being a member of the Corps of Cadets was not a requirement, the rule change there that President Hahn did at the time. Did you ever have any interest in joining the Corps? Was that something you ever thought about?

Jerry: I didn't come here for the Corps. I respected that as an option. I ended up before I graduated with a very low lottery number and that's when they had the lottery. Vietnam was going. That's the same timeframe that Kent State and all the things happened on the campuses and so it was a volatile time as well. So I was assuming when I graduated I would be going right in, and literally in the spring of my senior year is when they did away with the lottery and it no longer existed. But you know I hadn't considered that per say, but my persona is 23:00such that I would have been open to going probably out of ignorance to the peril that might be involved. But I also said that if I was going to go in I was going to try to go to Officer Candidate School and come out as an officer versus just being drafted or enlisted.

Ren: You mentioned a few things you were involved with when you were here as a student, the service fraternity, intermural sports and other things. What are some of your favorite memories or experiences from your time here at Virginia Tech?

Jerry: I was very engaged in the service fraternity from the beginning. I pledged the fall of my freshman year, so almost immediately made contact and pledged.

It's interesting because they changed the rules the next year that you had to be a sophomore to pledge because it was having too much of an impact on the 30 hours of service you had to do and everything else to be a pledge. So I was 24:00focused as much on being successful in Alpha Phi Omega as I was on my college career, and so that was just huge for me. I was very actively involved in service projects, and that gave me some opportunities with the different fraternity and panhellenic councils. At that point the fraternities were not approved so they were all off campus, and so we were kind of coming into it. It was a very conservative university at the time. Women weren't allowed in the dorms and there was only certain hours and the doors had to be kept open, so it was a very different time, and then with the volatility of what was going on in the world.

But we were involved in service across the campus and we were one of the most visible groups as far as doing things. We kept the chapel open so that it was open all the time and we got involved in the bloodmobiles. I was very active 25:00with the bloodmobiles. As president we broke the collegiate record for bloodmobile in the nation, and actually one of my job offers when I graduated was with the Red Cross because of the notoriety that came from that, and so very very engaged in that and probably not as engaged in my studies until I got into the junior senior year where I had some real interest in the substantive nature of what I was reading and studying and doing.

Ren: That major of political science did you have kind of a focus that you wanted to really dive into? Were you allotted that or was it just kind of a broad political science?

Jerry: It was more broad. I was interested in public administration. My family had all been government employees, so a large contingent of the group. So actually when I graduated and ended up in financial services it was just another action and my dad says where I was kind of a maverick and always going the 26:00opposite direction of expectation.

Ren: Right.

Jerry: So yeah, it was public relations, public service, public administration, that was kind of the areas where I took more of the classes.

Ren: On the reverse side of that earlier question difficult experiences here and how did those affect you if you had any.

Jerry: Probably the one difficult thing was I didn't spend enough time studying and so I had to really kind of hunker down and work hard to get the grades up because literally after the first, we were on a quarter system them, at the first quarter I was on probation and I ended up with an overall 3.5. So I mean it takes a lot to undo that first year when you have to try to regroup and get it done.

And I think a lot of that again was because I was in the wrong place, wrong major. That was a reality check that it was my responsibility to get this done 27:00and that's why you are here.

Ren: You mentioned this a couple of times, being a student here in the late 1960s and early 1970s a really change in our culture and our society, where there anything that played out in Blacksburg that you remember? Were there any sit-ins, protests, any activism going on that you can remember?

Jerry: Oh absolutely. There was a rally, Sandy Hawthorne was president of the student body at that point in time. I think from what I've heard he's still in the area, and he had very long hair which was just coming into its own at that point and he was president of the student body and so he was running rallies on the Drillfield. That is the time when Williams Hall got occupied and T. Marshall Hahn was pretty tough on the whole situation. Literally the Drillfield was wall 28:00to wall state trooper cars. They were everywhere. He had tightened down on things that it was going to be very controlled. They allowed for some protests of what was taking place but it was not an out of control situation like you saw at many of the universities. But there was that timeframe of a several months period that was just rampant across the country where there was a lot of protesting taking place. Williams Hall they backed up a Mayflower moving van, ripped the doors right off the building, loaded everybody up into Mayflower moving van and took them to Christiansburg Jail.

So you are seeing these things going on. You were part of the university and everything, but it was very controlled from the standpoint that you really had the back-up of state police and everybody that were here, but it was real. I mean it was something that was taking place across the country as far as the protests and ending the war and all that.

Ren: A few people have shared the story of Williams Hall and with the Mayflower 29:00truck. When you think about that time was there ever a point where you maybe wished you had went to another university or you knew Virginia Tech was kind of the place to be?

Jerry: I was probably more amazed that it was more of an unspoken process here at Tech, which was kind of good on one hand to say okay we're not so isolated out here in the middle of nowhere that we're not seeing what's taking place and involved in that at the same time.

But also proud of the fact that ours was the appropriate kinds of protests. That there wasn't violence. You know the Williams Hall thing that came the closest but it happened so quickly. It was so controlled and all, so it was more you 30:00know looking and searching for what's the appropriateness and I think it was a good environment for that. But there wasn't a time when I stepped on campus that I wasn't glad I was here.

Ren: Did you ever feel any conflict or tensions between maybe some people that were involved in protests and activism and then maybe returning vets and then also the Corps being here was there any type of blending that you saw?

Jerry: I didn't experience that because some of my closest friends were vets that had come back to school. One in particular that I became very close to and we used to kid because we thought he was placed here to kind of be in a dorm and see what was going on because he was in his 30s. I didn't see any polarization. I'm sure there was some but not in the circles I was running in. I continued to 31:00be involved with the service fraternity and doing things and you are going to see the dean of Student Affairs and stuff like that, you don't want to go in with a... They made all power orange fist t-shirts. That's not something I'm going to wear going in to see Dr. Dean. For me we were going through it. It was a period. It was an important period. It was a statement. At the same time life was going on in the university appropriately as to what needed to take place.

Ren: Someone in an earlier interview said there were things happening here. It wasn't Berkeley obviously, but there were things that happened here but it just really seemed that so much of the student body head down, working on their academics, involved in athletic student service fraternities, whatever it may be and that was kind of the end of it. So in 1973 you graduated with a degree in political science. Where did life take you after that?

Jerry: I started interviewing a lot of different companies and I really started in the career services division and I started interviewing a lot of companies just to become more familiar with the interview process. I think back to some of the things I wore to the interviews and I'm thinking I'm surprised they even talked to me. But I got intrigued by what I was hearing about the independent nature of financial services and being able to control your time and do what you wanted to do, and it was very much based on you and your own successes. So then I started interviewing a lot of financial services firms and I literally graduated and six days later started with an insurance company at that point, which all the insurance companies now have grown into full financial services and started my career almost immediately.

For almost six months beforehand I had made the decision, so they were just bringing me back and forth giving me things to do and all to become more 33:00familiar reading and things like that to make sure they didn't lose me as a candidate. But my last six months I was engaged in actually thinking about the particular career. And because I wasn't, I had already made that decision there's where I could then focus too on some of my classes of independent study and things like that because I had already decided, and that's why I told the professor that wanted me to stay in graduate school that's decided. I want to get out because I want to start building a career and making some money and things like that.

Ren: After you had graduated did you move back to Northern Virginia?

Jerry: Yes. They actually tried to recruit me to Richmond and I said that I wouldn't do that. I wanted to move back to Northern Virginia, so they put me in touch with the companies in the DC area and I started working in the offices in downtown DC and then within a few years I started to move out to suburbia. So 34:00I've been actually with the same -- the company I started with Connecticut Regional merged with MassMutual, so I've actually been with the same company the entire career because it's a non-captive relationship, so you don't have to necessarily just represent them. So the 6th of June, two or three days ago was my 45th Anniversary with the company as well.

Ren: Wow.

Jerry: So I tend to stick and try to make a difference where I am.

Ren: You served as a General Agent of the Washington Group of MassMutual from 1986 to 2004, I guess more than 40 or 45 years of experience in the financial service industry. Just looking at the financial service industry when you hear that what does that mean exactly and can you just explain a little bit about the things that you did in your profession?

Jerry: You know when we started it was mostly an insurance company, so I was starting with Connecticut Regional as an insurance company. I went into 35:00management when I was 27 so you build a unit of younger people coming in. I started to almost immediately recruit from Virginia Tech so I always had a bunch of Hokies around the office. I immediately began to do leadership roles. That's why they put me in management. They already had an agency supervisor but I said I would start a scratch unit and within a couple of years my unit was larger than the guy that was there to do that. And so then I built some of the largest units of new people in the system and late to mid-80s was winning awards for largest units of new people, which kind of set the stage for the ultimate management position.

And that role in that company is one I can franchise, so you own the local office. Your revenue streams have to support the infrastructure, but it's very entrepreneurial, and so then when you leave they have to buy you out of it. So 36:00then the merger of Mass came. Well during this timeframe they are expanding on the broker dealer. It's becoming more financial planning. For more financial planning broker dealer has all the stocks, bonds, mutual funds, all that kind of thing in it, so then I end up with all the registrations at the highest levels including the management ones, Series 24 and all. And the industry has just really changed over all those years.

So then early 50s, 53 I think I announced to senior management that I was going to retire early. I was eligible because I had the years, but they had come out with this program called the Special Care Program which was built around doing special planning for families with kids with special needs, and so I got engaged with that fairly early on. When I announced to senior management, because I had the third largest, one of the largest offices in the country with a lot of reps 37:00and brokers and it was a machine, and so when I announced to senior management I was going to retire early the response was, "You weren't a problem until you announced that. Now we've got to figure out how to replace you."

Ren: What year was this?

Jerry: This was in -- well I announced in 2003. Then I retired, I actually announced it probably even a little earlier than that, retired at the end of 2004. We had built a succession plan, a guy to come in and take over and then I said I would stay in the agency to assist for a year but I want to be out because I didn't want people to continue to come to me, and that's when I started the Washington Group. The Washington Group was my DBA. I started the Washington Group Special Care Planning Team nine months before I retired, then associates, young associates could join that group, specialize in that kind of planning with the families. It allowed me to kind of set the stage to do things 38:00that I had always wanted to do. And then about five years ago is when I established Caring Consulting Group or work in disability inclusion within corporate America. Because of my role throughout my company history with Mass I knew a lot of senior executives that had gone to various different companies and I maintained those contacts. And so now I consult in addition and the practice side has kind of been tuned down a little bit, and most of what I'm doing these days is consulting with these corporations on disabilities and inclusion and understanding special needs.

Ren: I want to obviously get to that part of your life, but I want to back up and ask you just a couple of questions. You said you immediately started hiring Hokies when you were able to. What was it about these students? What did you see in them that you wanted to say hey, I want to hire them?

Jerry: I was a zealot by the time I graduated so I interviewed, because I felt 39:00the industry, the retention rate for kids coming off the campus was lousy, but I think it was more a function of the care that you gave them and the building the relationship and really helping them. And since I had come off the campus and was having some successes, I used to have senior management and people at the agency levels argue with me that it was a terrible source of candidates, but it was a good source for me and my folks were having success. Typical retention is about 10% after five years and I was retaining 60%. So I was interviewing at Madison. I interviewed at UVA for a couple of years and stopped because I didn't see the same kind of persona I was after.

But I was going to career services probably my entire time that I was in second 40:00line management all the way through to first line management. It allowed me to come back. It allowed me to sustain relationships. Some of the closest relationships I have now are younger people that I brought in off of campuses that are now in leadership roles across the industry. And again that's part of our legacy. I think you build and you help people with their careers. When I left the agency a lot of people when I retired left to go other places. Every one of them was asking me for the recommendations to do it because we had those relationships, so it was just a continuation of what I had built as a relationship here.

Ren: Kind of Hokies helping Hokies right?

Jerry: Exactly.

Ren: One thing I want to ask you about and I'm sure you've been asked this 100 times so bear with me, the [2000] financial crisis how did that affect your industry, what you did and what you were able to do?

Jerry: Again, just like everything else my client base I have a strong 41:00relationship with, and so there's a bond of trust. And you know I never view myself as a sales person like in the classic stereotypical view. My people understood, and so as we went through the crisis it was, you know the volatility of markets, the volatility of all markets including real estate, people used to say that's bulletproof, there's nothing that's bulletproof. And so I take kind of a criterion view and so when I see volatility from my client base I had built that around well this is a good time because everything is on sale and these kinds of things.

I had very few people jump out of the market. It was a hold and wait and see and of course a lot of what we were doing was through life insurance products and guarantees and things like that, and so it was an interesting timeframe. But for 42:00me and my agency and I was very diverse in the agency. We had different product lines. I was one of the strongest in long-term care. I was one of the strongest in fee-based planning. We did a lot of BOLI or bank-owned life insurance. I have networked across the country doing that. It's the largest producer in the company as an agency of that product, so I stayed diversified, because there's always something that's working right. A lot of the guys stayed very focused on fewer areas. I was focused across all, built a huge staff. And I think from a business standpoint I surrounded myself with some really really strong good people and paid them well. I didn't pay myself as well as I could have because I would rather have other people around me to drive it, so I had one of the biggest management groups and teams and that was part of the success. So you can weather things as you go through it because you are providing such a value-added 43:00resource in all areas.

Ren: Right. I'm going to transition to some more Virginia Tech stuff here. This is a question we always ask, but if someone simply says the words Virginia Tech what's the first thing you think of?

Jerry: It's all related to my own personal experience. I have a very sarcastic streak, so depending upon who is bringing it up and how they are bringing it up. I might have a lot of commentary that goes with it. I am a zealot. My daughter and my son-in-law went here, and I outfit my grandkids every year in all new outfits of Virginia Tech. I'm always working on my grandkids. I mean I recruited from here. I have them in my sphere of people that I'm close with, and so yeah, 44:00to me it's a huge part of who I am. If I look at my polos it's probably half and half, it's Virginia Tech and other polos. The outfits I've got a room that has Hokie stuff throughout it. It's everywhere and I usually ask the question even in business relationships, and so when it comes up and I've said to everybody I think the affinity for Virginia Tech, the analogy I use all the time is the traffic in the Washington, DC area is terrible and so it's easy to get road rage over some of the idiocy that you see on the road, but the classic example of affinity is somebody cuts you off and then you see their license plate and it says they are from Tech and you go, "Well that's okay." [Chuckles] Whereas you're ready to take anybody else out.

So it's the way you feel about it because it's an immediate bond. I travel the 45:00world and I see Hokies everywhere and we speak to each other. I go to New York City, nobody speaks, but somebody will have something on Hokies do, so it's just a different persona.

Ren: Right. I want to, and you mentioned this affinity, so there's a gallop survey a few years ago I'm sure you saw about Virginia Tech alumni having such a love and attachment to this university at such a higher rate than other institutions. What do you think it is about this place or Virginia Tech that allows alums to feel such a love for it?

Jerry: You know it's interesting how it all emerged. I think that as a university we've gone from being a very technical, you know we were known as VPI and then when I was here is when it changed to VPISU. And then the persona 46:00finally came with Virginia Tech. I think a lot of it had to do with the athletics and the successes that we were seeing and athletics was changing our persona. There was pride in the successes. There was pride in who we were as a technical institute. But on campus it was a large campus so you had a lot of shall we say communities within the campus and on the campus that you built a high level of affinity with. I mean I maintain a relationship with a few of the folks that I knew from high school but I maintain a lot of relationships and contact with the people that I met in my freshman hall or that were a part of my wedding just because of the affinity that was there. Can I define exactly what makes Tech so different? I mean it just is. And even with the tragic events that took place the way we handled things and the grace and maybe that's just in some 47:00of the overall DNA of the kind of school we are, but the leadership also over the years has been an impact of that, because we've had some pretty extraordinary leaders and so we just stand as an example and I think we continue to do that.

Ren: As a proud alumnus of Virginia Tech I know you've been involved in lots of things on campus. Do you want to run through these and talk about the inaugural member and past chair of the College of Arts and Sciences, Roundtable Advisory Board? I know you are active both on College of Science and College of Liberal Arts and even Sciences roundtables. How did you get involved in these groups and what has that experience been like?

Jerry: Right from the year that I've graduated I've always given gifts to the university. I think I was selected to be on the first... I was a charter member 48:00of the Dean's Roundtable of the College of Arts and Sciences probably because of my giving record. They had to find some way to find people that were tied and I think that's how the initial decision was made on that. But that board became probably one of the better working boards as far as the way the deans saw it, went after advice and made them inclusive in the thinking of what was taking place and really engaged with the alumni, and that goes back to the 80s.

Ren: Who was the dean at the time? Was it Bob Bates?

Jerry: No, Herman Doswald. If you go back a little bit, but Herman and then it went from Herman to I think it was Bob and then we've had various different ones to the current one. I was involved in that when the restructuring took place of 49:00the Arts and Sciences. That's one of the reasons why I re-engaged with what is now the College of Liberal Arts and Human Sciences. I have always been fortunate to have a good relationship with the deans themselves and the staffs because I help recruit to Tech. I will write recommendation letters and things like that. I think in the older days that was more helpful than it is today because it is so competitive. And so I am recruiting to it so knowing who in the academic arena at the college levels are involved in recruiting and student involvement and those kinds of things has always been helpful.

I was asked to be I guess because of the College of Science work and Liberal Arts I was asked to be on the Foundation Board for the university, that was interesting, and then I was involved as the chair for the College of Liberal 50:00Arts and Human Sciences during the campaign, and I took an active role. I mean I was involved in literally going out and for the ask for me the development people are somewhat constrained in what they can specifically say, whereas I don't have any point coming straight out and just asking and saying, "Do it and let's do it now."

Ren: [Chuckles] Right. Can you talk about that national campaign and the length and the amount raised during that time?

Jerry: Well it was structured very well. There was a steering committee and then there were regional committees and then some of the regional committee leadership became part of the steering committee. Each college had leaders. The Corps had its own leadership and what we were trying to do with the center, the Fine Arts Center was all part of it. We met on a regular basis. There was a lot 51:00of planning and actions to take place, a fair amount of accountability to make sure we were staying on target so it was very integrated. I was involved more toward obviously like in most situations after the quiet phase is when they really got active with it. Having been involved with the development and central development and all that I had probably a clearer understanding than most alumni as to this whole process of how it works, so I knew a lot of the people. Having made gifts and help people gifts I knew the difference between how you do it from a legacy standpoint or gifting stock or tax ramifications because of my financial background so I was more intimate with those kinds of things.

That component of development has been a lot of my involvement. The College of Sciences Board was initially that was a very small component and became a very 52:00large component. When you look at those that were on that and many of them initially have been on the Foundation, been in the Foundation, are significant givers today. Which just shows the importance of building the relationship with folks and engagement because once they see that there is a need a lot of people will engage. But you've got to have the relationship to build it before they will engage, so those were just... And again it was a way that, it amazes me the people that have graduated and haven't been back here in 20 or 25 years. There hasn't been a year that I wasn't here three or four or five times every year since graduating, so I've done [81 quarter] a thousand times.

Ren: So you've obviously and the reason I was asking you about some folks is your service and dedication to Virginia Tech has really touched a lot of other people that we have interviewed for VT Stories -- John Dooley, Dean Blieszner, 53:00Bob Bates, Kim Muller from the College of Science, so a lot of these folks we've interviewed. Looking at your story and your history I was like I'll bet he knows some of these people that we've interviewed, so you're in like company I guess you could say. When giving and doing all these things to Virginia Tech and then asked to participate on these boards it's kind of a simple question, but why?

Jerry: Just as I recruited the younger people I think our future really is many times in the younger people. A lot of my focus on the boards has been to recruitment or scholarships. I've set up a couple of scholarships myself and I try to build a relationship with the kids. I want to help them once they graduate. That's one of the things that's a little harder today because of all 54:00the privacy issues and everything else, but the network that's available through the alumni for employment and those kinds of things, so it's the total picture. I mean how can we help people and change lives and open doors. So the first scholarship I did was based around the serving spirit and community involvement and everything else. The same theme. The fellowship is based around special needs and serving the community and that permeates my involvement at all levels whatever I'm doing.

Ren: And the Endowed Scholarship for Leadership, Friendship and Services for undergraduate students who demonstrate these characteristics, so a graduate fellowship and then a scholarship. That is correct, right?

Jerry: That is correct. The Leadership, Friendship Service one that happens to also be the motto for Alpha Phi Omega and that's why I named that scholarship 55:00that. And that had a component where I was looking for leadership qualities but I was also looking for what they had done in the community and that actual scholarship comes with the recipient gets to choose their charity of choice and I also donate $500 in their name to that charity. So it's to give an example of giving back. It's to give an example of somebody that is actively in the community, and so that all kind of ties together.

Ren: In 2016 you were inducted or selected as a College of Science Hall of Distinction. What was that experience like and how did that make you feel?

Jerry: Well, because a lot of the people on that board over the years have been in it, but because I had been kind of involved in both colleges that probably as much came about as the development officer Jenny approached me about the new 56:00center for autism, and with that being an additional passion of mine I got very engaged with that, have been very involved. A lot of my giving in the last say ten years have been much more specific to a certain agenda, whether it be destination boundary scholarships to the kids or we just put on the road that was successfully done by Angela Scarpa out of the center as this new van that goes around and tests for autism throughout the communities of rural Virginia. And so that was a physical thing that is going to make a difference to a lot of families that couldn't get their kids tested any other way.

And so I got behind that and hoping to support that financially. Of late it's been more specific to those kinds of agendas when I see something that needs some extra momentum and some alumni to promote. The Hall was -- again there's an 57:00aspect of me that likes to maintain a low profile, but that was extraordinary because that's just recognition that you're doing things right and that people are recognizing that you are giving back. In my mind these are people that have done extraordinary things and so it was a pretty awesome experience for me because I knew a lot of the people. Like you say a lot of people you mentioned I know, and so there's some acknowledgement component to it that okay you are getting things done that are right things to do and the recognition. The recognition is harder for me. I used to like to do a lot of the gifting I did more anonymously, and then it was brought to my attention that you are an example and if you let us use your name you can't be the example you could be. So that's why I kind of came out and said yeah let's do it that way. So it's just another way to get some visibility to bring people into the fold.

Ren: A couple of months ago Virginia Tech had its first inaugural giving day and you had a couple of challenges out to the College of Liberal Arts and Human Sciences and the College of Science. Can you talk a little bit about those challenges?

Jerry: Well again I try to think innovatively how can we do things a little bit different. How can we take the ordinary and make it more extraordinary? And so when there was the mention of maybe getting some matching gift kinds of situations I stepped up to both colleges and said let's do that so that they could use that as leverage, again using me or whoever. Having two Hokies in my family it allowed me then to also go to them and leverage them because they are more digitally inclined and so this was a good digital process. I think we learned a lot through that first one, had great success. It was very exciting, 59:00and so I was just very excited to participate in a way that we could make a difference and see it happen. It's been one of my passions to involve the younger alumni sooner than later to maintain that relationship, so this was another opportunity to do that and encourage it. Because the younger alumni are much more into the digital side of things that made it much easier to promote that. I like to think that even at my age and stage that I'm a little more current than some people, so it's just another methodology.

Ren: And your challenges were met, is that correct?

Jerry: Yes, yes, both of them were met and they kind of divided it up a little bit to layers, and so at different layers there was matching taking place. And it's interesting. I went in with a certain intent and then they built on the 60:00intent and that's what makes it that much better. I think sometimes we get in our own way that we have to have our way, versus just recognizing that what we want to do is leverage possibilities and leverage opportunities, and so that's what I was looking to try to do, and I'm pretty merciless calling all my friends and saying, "Get on the bandwagon here." I actually had a president of one of the alumni associations locally who knows me who was in a different college and everything else and said, "I'm giving just to get into your pocket." And I said, "I don't care why, as long as you do." We were having fun with it too.

Ren: This is question I'm sure you've been asked, but what is the -- giving back to Virginia Tech financially what you can and when you can why should alums do that? And especially because we look at the state funding of higher education 61:00it's quite low and there needs to be significant private funding for universities like Virginia Tech, why give back?

Jerry: Well I think first of all I think it's the responsibility for all of us as human beings, whether you are giving back from a monetary standpoint or you are helping somebody to give of your time or your talent or whatever it may be. I just think it's a part of what we have as a social and personal responsibility. Having been on the boards that I've been on and involvement I know how little is actually still coming from the state. We talk about being a state school land grant and I think out there [uninformed] think a lot of it is just covered and it's not. I mean we are basically balancing through tuitions and then ultimately the endowment. So a university like Virginia that has a huge endowment gives them flexibilities that therefore we haven't had until we start 62:00to build our endowment. And if we are going to attract the brightest people whether it be as faculty or whether it be as instructors or the students themselves that's ultimately our future. And so if you care at all about successive generations, our own kids, our own grandkids and things like that. The future is in the young people that are coming along and we are not going to tax our way out of this. Taxes are not going to cover them. I'm very involved in a lot of social service things throughout my special needs work and we're not going to tax ourselves out of this. So unless we start helping ourselves and helping to recognize that.

Part of it I think comes back around to I understand the process. I understand the budgetary process of the university and that's kind of the pragmatic side of reality. On the other side of it I think that goes hand in hand with the fact 63:00that we should be giving back anyway and I see it as a responsibility and that's the way I promote it to people. Anybody that was at all, at all engaged on the campus this is a part of who they are. This has made some difference in their life, to the experiences or the relationship that they had even through friendships. So that's what it's about is somebody pay it forward so that you can do those kinds of things.

Ren: You mentioned this a little bit earlier and I want to get to this part because I know you are very involved and active in a number of civic and philanthropic organizations and your work with individual students, adults with disabilities and special needs. Can you just talk a little bit about how you got involved, why you got involved and some things you have done in that arena?

Jerry: A lot of people that are engaged with that community have personal 64:00situations in their families. One in five Americans today is involved in some disability, [either] on an extended basis, one in six working Americans are caregivers. You've got an aging population. You've got different kinds of disability from congenital to debilitating to the overnight stroke, car accident to the aging population. It's a huge part of our society and it's been neglected. That's why the strain on Medicare and Medicaid at this point. So when I saw helping families with special needs I just felt this was just -- what an incredible way to open up resource. It's a quagmire to try to figure out all the government benefits, so I have become pretty adept at a lot of the aspects of social security that most people don't understand and it just helps families. I kept more psychic renumeration from working with these families in a week than I used to get in a year running a big office of associates. So when you start to 65:00take that in and then you take a tie-in to Virginia Tech and all the research that's being done the destination and the brain destination and how that ties into the whole thing and you see what's taking place there it's just a huge area.

Autism is a perfect example of something that has emerged as very very significant as a part of our society. One in 68 diagnosis more for depending upon the sex of the child, but that was the first kind of fellowship and giving to a graduate student that is going to work somehow, either research or special needs or something to do with that.

I think we had to address it just like we have to address the debilitating disability of mental health. Just this week look at the suicides and they are all based on mental health issues and we've not been addressing that as a 66:00nation. We have not been addressing that as a society but it's out and it's becoming commonplace and we have to deal with it, and so it's become a big passion of mine. That's one of the reasons why I actually retired the first time early. It's one of the reasons why I started this consulting group because corporate America doesn't understand it. I said we are not going to tax our way out of it. The nonprofits are all fighting for the same development dollars as Virginia Tech fights to get development dollars. So corporate America is where the understanding because it's a huge employment possibility. It's grossly underemployed as a group. Corporate America has the money to make a change, to do things differently and benefit structures and things like that, employment solves so many things. So you get me under that soapbox, I mean I am involved with a lot of national nonprofits. I'm involved with a lot of organizations that 67:00are with corporate America that are starting to look into this. We are opening some eyes as possibilities there as well. And the links also have to take place between corporate America. They've existed through some of the research dollars, but in a broader sense to all the possibilities that could be there.

Ren: What do you think and why do you think this group of individuals you said neglected, why have they been neglected do you think?

Jerry: Probably misunderstanding. People don't understand disabilities. A lot of people are uncomfortable around disabilities. One of the things, I grew up I had a first cousin who had Down's Syndrome and to me that was just part of every family. I thought it was kind of normal, so I'm not the least bit uncomfortable around disabilities where a lot of people are. I think there was a stigma. There was a stigma employment of caregivers that maybe they couldn't be as good an 68:00employee because they were caring for people and the average caregiver is spending an additional 20 hours a week just in caring. But it's more out there now. Full inclusion started taking place in the school systems about 27-28 years ago with the ADA Act so now kids are growing up around disabilities and graduating, so that's been part of the changeover in thinking. We are a different place now and it's just emerging. Education has dealt with it. Once they graduate and go post-secondary there's kind of a cliff of a lot of the supports that exist out there, but you're seeing the same issues, the need for residential, need for employment, need for social, recreational.

You see things like, this is all I see these days. Uber or Link trying to build more accessible transportation, more accessible transportation aside of your 69:00public transportation. The ADA Act helped but now that needs to be expanded on. In the early days of ADA the only thing that we would generally see is they were cutting all the corners off the sidewalks to create the ramps. Well if you've been involved in building a facility or doing anything we now began to realize how much ADA is there, so the whole society is changing in recognition.

Ren: I want to ask you, my mom was a special education teacher for about 12 or 15 years she worked with one student and my sons are obviously in an inclusion classroom. There's others, an individual in my son's class. He seems to be in his class every year with Down Syndrome. And what I find so remarkable about, you were talking about how society doesn't understand these kids and these 70:00individuals, but Bradie and his class those kids understand and it's amazing to me to see that. They are not uncomfortable around it. He's very loud and vocal and it doesn't bother them. We were at a graduation, he's going into 6th grade and I could tell some of the parents were getting annoyed because it was loud and the kids were like it didn't bother them at all. It's just like the innocence of children I guess.

Jerry: It's like everything else, kids are building a relationship with him. It's normal for them. It's typical for them. And you will see that, there's this show that's on TV now with John Quinones I don't know what it's called, so if it happened to you where they show how people react.

Ren: Right.

Jerry: I think that's changing. Living situations are taking place in all neighborhoods, so I think it's just out more and I think it's the younger folks 71:00that are bringing that together. When you look at inclusive thinking even if you go back to people in my generation if I had a child with Down Syndrome there's a good possibility the doctor told me to institutionalize him, you're still able to not have to deal with it. That's a societal change. Now when it finally tipped over toward acceptance I can't say when exactly that was, but you're right, the kids are growing up and they've got a different level and they are more tolerant. They are just across the board more tolerant to everything.

And that's what we want. We want an inclusive society that accepts whether it be ethnic culture or whatever. That needs to include those with disabilities.

Ren: My wife and I always talk about it. We say we are glad that he's growing up in the area in Blacksburg with the very diverse group of friends and students, 72:00racial and ethnic and disability as well. I just admire this research and your activism in this area and I could talk to you forever about it. My graduate work, my master's and my doctorate is in education and inclusion and exclusion is a topic we always talk about. When I was teaching pre-service teachers that was something we always talked about.

Jerry: I do this autism symposium every fall up in Northern Virginia and we bring in, and usually part of the program is somebody out of the Education Department that is talking about different things they are doing particularly in the special needs and the education world. It's everywhere and when you start to tune-in you see it. A lot of people don't see it because they just have not had any reason to really kind of check-in and see it. As you build awareness like 73:00everything else there's an aspect you want to be aware, but we want to get to the point where it's just part of morality. It's just who we are as a society.

Ren: I just have a few more questions and thank you for being so generous with your time. I know there's a million and one events going on here this weekend. When you kind of look across the campus and the state of the university as a whole, as someone who was very involved as a student here, continues to be very involved today what inspires you first and then also what concerns you?

Jerry: Well if there is any concern it's probably that society or our governing bodies are not appropriately thinking in terms of the critical nature of what education needs to take place for our young folks, so you see education budgets cut and things like that. That's probably the biggest concern. At the same time 74:00I think there's got to be a greater engagement by everybody to do through endowments and everything else because that's part of basically what needs to take place for success. I personally knew most of the leadership of the university all the way up through Charlie Steger so with the new leadership I don't know them as well, but for me it's very exciting as I get to know them and see what's taking place and the restructuring. It's kind of like okay, we were at a great place to retool for where this thing is headed in the future. The destination areas that President Sands has come out with, the integration of cross-discipline that's what we see taking place in business. That's what we see taking place in society.

I think we were pushing the whole research component, which we're not backing off of, but we are looking more at how do we fit into society and all these 75:00things that are going to be important. Some of what is taking place in the neurological science areas is exciting for me when I see what's going on. Some of the people that we are attracting are incredible folks around the world and around the United States, so I think we are going to re-establish ourselves, not that we aren't already, but even more so. The vet school here and Carillion and the med school being added we are moving to cutting edge kinds of leadership again which I think is -- I like everything I see as far as the direction. It just creates a greater responsibility for alumni to be engaged to understand how it all intersects with out there beyond Blacksburg.

Ren: Right. VT Stories is a perfect example of this interdisciplinary 76:00transdisciplinary project because we have faculty and staff from history, from English, from TLOS which is a technology side that do a lot of website work. And like you said that's what you see on the world. It's what you see in a lot of academic publications is liberal arts working with the hard sciences so to speak. That's one thing that I think the Sands' are really appreciative about VT Stories is we are bringing in a lot of people from different disciplines. It's great to work with people who kind of wear different hats so to speak.

Jerry: That is very important, but the difference is engagement. It's involvement. I mean we've got an extraordinary group of talented people in so many different areas. In some instances I continue to hear it's still a pretty good kept secret as to some of them that are there. Now we are building a much greater presence in Northern Virginia and across the state and even up into New 77:00England, but it's the engagement. People can have successes, but that's what I like about the autism symposium I do, is these are showcasing people that can make a difference to the public. People that have nothing to do with Virginia Tech, changes mindsets, and it's not just this university. It's a lot of places, but to recognize the clinical nature of what's taking place and the impact that that has all the way to I've got a lady that does testing for autism but she's very much into this whole issue of brain injury. And so then you look at the technology of taking place of the helmets that are being studied here and these are real life applications.

Now you think that kids of the families that put on those helmets know what might have taken place with research -- no, not necessarily. Did it impact on 78:00life? Did it possibly even save a life? Those are amazing. There's got to be in my mind it's not time to sit back. It's time to sit up and engage.

Ren: I always preface this question with a long introduction, not saying that your career is ending or anything like that, but what would you like people to know about you or what would you like to be remembered for?

Jerry: Well hopefully that my engagement with what was going on made a difference in lives, and that I was proactive about getting that done. People that know me know I have a serving spirit. I'm an advocate. I look to make things better and make things different and so I think that's what people will know me as is to make a difference and care, care about lives, care about 79:00people. You don't know when the next day it's going to change.

Ren: I should have asked you this earlier, your last name, the pronunciation of your last name and then do you know the family lineage there?

Jerry: It's funny, my assistant just gave me one of those ancestry kits to send in. I always understood it to be Scotch Irish German, but based on my grandparents backgrounds and all, but Hulick I think is probably more Scotch Irish than anything.

Ren: Thank you so much for sitting down with VT Stories and sharing your story. I think out of the 200-plus interviews that we've done and many that I've done myself, I don't know off the top of my head if I can find an alum, faculty who embodies the spirit of Ut Prosim of that I may serve besides you. With that said 80:00what does Virginia Tech mean to you and what does that motto mean to you?

Jerry: Well that's a motto that is representative of this university. It's in the fabric. It's in the fabric of the affinity. It should be in the fabric of everybody who leaves here, knowing that if you believe in Ut Prosim which I firmly believe in is that we can make a huge difference if we care. And so yeah, it's part of the overall fabric of things, which just makes this such an extraordinary place from that standpoint.

Ren: Thank you so much for talking with us, for your service in so many areas to this institution and elsewhere. I will just say Jerry Hulick class of 1973 it was a real honor to meet you and thank you for talking with us.

Jerry: I appreciate it. Thank you.

Ren: Thanks.