Oral History with Rice Dobbins, March 2, 1991 (Ms1991-019)

Michael Cooke: Today is March the second, 1991. I'm conducting an interview with Rice Dobbins of Blacksburg, Virginia. Mr. Dobbins, would you give us a brief biographical sketch of your life, your date of birth, your birth place, your education and occupation? And, I guess, in this case, where were you raised by the way? Because you weren't raised here.

Rice Dobbins: No, I was raised in--it's called Riner. It's Montgomery County.

C: Was it Piney Wood?

RD: They called it Piney Wood, yes.

C: So in that section of Riner.

RD: Yes, um-hm.

C: Okay, when were you born, by the way?

RD: 1909.

C: You remember your-

RD: Birthday?

C: Yeah, birthdate.

RD: Twenty-second of October.

C: October. Okay, education?

RD: Just preschool is all I have.

C: Just a little bit of school-

RD: Yeah.

C: Okay. Could you tell us about educational opportunities when you were growing up in Riner? Did they have a school for Blacks in that area?

RD: Yes, sir. They had a school for Blacks.

C: Could you talk about the school and some of the teachers if you can recall them? What kind of school was it? One room school, two room school?

RD: We had a one room school first, and then they built it into a two-room school.

C: Do you remember when they built into, built another addition to it?

RD: No I don't.

C: 1930s, [19]40s, [19]50s?

RD: I couldn't tell you to save my life.

C: That's all right.

RD: [Laughs] I don't know.

C: They only had one teacher, even if they did have two rooms.

RD: Yeah, they had one teacher. They had two teachers for a while. After they built a new one, they had two teachers for a while.

C: Oh, they did?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: You remember some of the people who taught there and where they came from?

RD: Mrs. Mabel Goff. She came from Christiansburg. She taught there.

C: Was she Black?

RD: Yes sir, Black girl. Black teachers. There wasn't no whites. [Laughs]

C: Oh, they didn't have any white teachers teaching at these Black schools?

RD: No, sir. No, sir, not then. That was only the last few years.

C: Was she married or unmarried?

RD: She was unmarried.

C: Was it required that they be married or unmarried? They could be married if they were a teacher?

RD: I don't think it described anything about that, I don't think, when I was going to school.

C: Can you remember, in addition to educational opportunities--for instance if you wanted to go on let's say you wanted to go on and get a high school education, where could you go?

RD: Christiansburg, old Christiansburg Institute.

C: And was it difficult for people in Riner to get there?

RD: Yes, sir, it was difficult.

C: Why was it difficult?

RD: Well, they didn't have no buses and things when it first opened up. Finally, they got buses to go out to there, too.

C: Do you remember anything about the bus service then?

RD: No, sir, I don't. I couldn't tell you, I left home in [19]34.

C: 1934?

RD: Yes, sir. [Laughs].

C: But was it after or before?

RD: It was before that.

C: So before, just before you left?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: They started, so probably the [19]30s-

RD: Yes, sir.

C: Early [19]30s or maybe late [19]20s maybe. So that was real helpful for people?

RD: Yes, it was.

C: Remember some of the people in your neighborhood you grew up with? What were some of the prominent family names of Riner, when you were growing up?

RD: Well, there was Mr. Will Pack, Mr. Ollie Pack, Ted Barton [3:30], Tom Jones.

C: Did they own their own land?

RD: Yes, sir. Some of them [inaudible 3:38].

C: Were they extensive land owners? I mean, did people own let's say more than five acres?

RD: Oh, yes sir. Most of them had more than five. Some few of them didn't. Most of them had more than five.

C: Do you know how they came into that land?

RD: No, I don't, to tell you the truth.

C: But they had a lot of land?

RD: Not a lot but they had several acres, five or ten acres most of them.

C: Did they donate their land to their children as they got older, or how did it 4:00work? Did they just-

RD: Some of them did, yes. And some of them sold it off before they died.

C: What kind of work did people do in that area?

RD: They mostly farmed over there. That's what they mostly made their living out of was farming over there.

C: Okay, what kind of things did they farm?

RD: They put out corn and wheat, stuff like that. Something that they could raise to eat, you know.

C: And then they sold it? Who did they generally sell that kind of produce to? Did they sell it locally or did they sell it regionally or let's say put it on a train and take it to, let's say, Roanoke or something?

RD: They take it to Christiansburg to the mill, what they had to sell.

C: Oh, that's right. The mill on Depot Street?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: So, they took the wheat and the things of that nature to the depot?

RD: What they had to sell. Most of them didn't have nothing to sell because they raised it, and they made flour and stuff just for the families. That's the way they made their living, I think.

C: Oh, so the mill could do all that?

RD: The mill could just grind anything.

C: Grind anything?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: Not just simply the things they do today.

RD: Excuse me. No, sir.

C: So, locally, you could produce your own wheat?

RD: Yes, sir, your own wheat.

C: Cornmeal, I guess?

RD: Yes, sir. Take it to the mill, and they'd grind it. You take your meal and your flour back home. That's the way the old folks used to do it.

C: Were people fairly well to do in the area? Did people make a good livelihood for them as farmers?

RD: Yes sir. They raised their own hogs and everything, their own meat, had their own cows and all that stuff.

C: Did they sell the cows and the hogs?

RD: No, they'd sell those pigs most of the time. They'd buy them about five or six years old. They keep out what they wanted to raise for their self. They'd keep four or five for their self, kill them, and salt the bacon down so they'd have bacon and stuff for fried food [5:51].

C: Oh, but they didn't sell it to any local butcher shops?

RD: No sir. No, sir. Not the colored people didn't. They didn't have that kind of--big white folk [inaudible 5:58]

C: Would the whites have accepted that if the Backs had tried to sell their produce to-

RD: Yes, sir.

C: Their livestock?

RD: Yes, sir. They could-

C: Did some people do that though?

RD: Some of them did.

C: But not in Riner for the most part?

RD: Not too many in Riner because they didn't have too much to sell now. They just had enough to give to their self.

C: You grew up during the Depression. Could you talk about how life was in Riner during the Depression?

RD: Well, it was pretty rough during the Depression, just barely could make it. Yes, sir, pretty rough, but we made it.

C: Before the Depression, was there a real problem area in terms of economy before the Depression or was it something that you just kind of weathered the storm?

RD: You just kind of weathered the storm.

C: So, it was always pretty tough, being Black?

RD: Always pretty tough, yes, sir. Black people had to work for the white people for their living, mostly. They could raise a little farm but extra money they 7:00got, they had to work for the white people.

C: What kind of jobs did they have in terms of making it?

RD: Working on a farm, working on a farm, farm labor. See, Black people shucking the beans, better get out there and shuck it. Cut the corn and build a silo. They'd hire you to do that kind of work, you'd see them doing.

C: So, in addition to their own farm work they did other people's farm work?

RD: That's right.

C: Did any people work on the railroad or let's say the mines in the area?

RD: Not over there that I know of. Several people used to work--there was a place called Extract in Radford, come over there, put them people--the woman I worked with there--at Extract in Radford.

C: Extra?

RD: Extract!

C: Extract?

RD: Yes, sir. Where they drug that wood through and made extract out of them.

C: Oh, I see.

RD: Yes, sir.

C: But other than that, people generally just simply farmed and then supplemented their income by working for other people doing farm work?

RD: Yes, sir. And some few of them worked at the pipe shop. You know where the pipe shop is out in Radford, don't you? Foundry?

C: Oh yes, the foundry, yes.

RD: What's his name? Henry Burton--Not Henry Burton--Trisha's husband works over there now.

C: Oh, yeah okay. So, people did that type of work.

RD: Yes, they done that.

C: When they worked at the foundry, did they receive the same type of pay as whites do in that type of work?

RD: I guess they did. Now I don't think-

C: You're just, you're not familiar with that?

RD: I'm not familiar.

C: Okay. What about the younger--Riner, is it still about the same size in terms of the population or have a lot of people kind of over the years left the area?

RD: Lord, they done left her dead. It's a funeral over there now. Only ones I know now is the Packs and Walton, my cousin, and one of Jonah's boys is all I know over there right now.

C: So, what happened to the community? I mean, what happened to the young people 9:00of the Packs and the various other families you mentioned?

RD: They left. See, there wasn't much there for young people to do to make their money. They all left and went to the cities, just like my boys.

C: Okay, what happened? Before we get to your boys, what happened with some of the people over in Riner?

RD: Most of them went to Washington and around too, most of them. All of them over there went to Washington and to places like that.

C: Any other places, besides Washington D.C.?

RD: Not that I know of there.

C: Basically, they just couldn't find employment?

RD: No there was no-

C: Was there any employment at the university or the Radford Arsenal?

RD: Well, not at the time. See, the arsenal hadn't been open but so long now, you know, and a lot of them didn't like that kind of work. They just-

C: Why didn't they like that kind of work?

RD: They were scared of it, the boys [Laughs].

C: It was too dangerous?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: Wasn't because people wouldn't hire them?

RD: Oh, no. Oh, no. They'd hire them.

C: It was just too dangerous?

RD: Yeah, too dangerous, yes.

C: Were there a number of explosions or something that made them worry?

RD: I think there were several explosions in that little area.

C: They just didn't feel comfortable working there?

RD: No, sir.

C: Okay, talk about your own family. Did you raise your family in Blacksburg or in Riner?

RD: Blacksburg. My family was all born here.

C: Oh. When did you come to Blacksburg?

RD: I came in 1934, but I didn't get married until 1937. I got married in 1937 the second day of October.

C: When you first came to Blacksburg, what did you do then?

RD: I worked on a farm down in Heths Road, down on Heth's farm. Mr. Shelton, a white fellow.

C: Oh, that's what they call Hethwood?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: So, the Heth farm is now what we call Hethwood.

RD: Yes, sir. Yeah.

C: That's a major housing development.

RD: Yeah.

C: A lot of middle class homes and fine place to live. So, all of that was 11:00nothing but meadow I guess. And they just made--

RD: Fifteen hundred acres-

C: Fifteen hundred.

RD: [inaudible 11:09] and they farmed it.

C: What did you do when you were farming for Mr. Heth?

RD: Well, I didn't farm for him. It was the Shelton fellow, Shelton had it rented. Mr. Heth was dead, and his wife rented it to a fellow, Shelton. Well, we farmed. What he done, he put out a hundred acres of corn every year. We'd cut that corn and put that into the silo, and they raised cattle and things. Put up hay.

C: Well, you did a lot of work.

RD: Oh, yeah.

C: How many people worked on that farm?

RD: Let's see -- there was two boys and three of us hands they had hired.

C: How many people were Black who worked on that farm?

RD: Two. Amos Boffman and myself.

C: Amos Boffman? The guy who lives in Shawsville?

RD: Yeah.

C: You mean he came all the way from Shawsville?

RD: He did not come from there by then. See, he was born over near Riner where I was born.

C: Oh, he was born in Riner, too.

RD: Yeah. [Laughs]

C: I was trying to think of why is he coming from Shawsville all the way to Blacksburg to work?

RD: No, he was born over in Piney Woods where I was born. That's where I came from, over here.

C: Okay.

RD: Didn't last two years. After he left and got out, him and his wife, they went down there. She was working for a white fellow--I don't know who--and they bought a home down there.

C: Oh, so they didn't originally live there?

RD: No, they was born and raised in Piney Woods where I was.

C: In Riner?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: They went down the mountain, I guess.

RD: Yeah. [Laughs] They worked on the Heth Farm for years. I left right before he did. He was there when I left. I left there 1941, the second day of August. I don't remember exactly when he left but-

C: Did you go into the army after that?

RD: No. I came up here in town and worked for a doctor, Dr. Lucas. I worked for him in 1941. Well, we still worked for him, but we moved here in 1947.

C: Um-hm. What was his name again?

RD: Dr. F. K. Ford Lucas.

C: And what kind of work did you do for him?

RD: He had a farm, and I farmed for him too.

C: Oh, you farmed for him?

RD: Yeah.

C: Where was this farm located?

RD: Up the road on Roanoke Street.

C: Where is it? Near the cemetery?

RD: Right off from the cemetery there, yes.

C: Oh, that area there were no houses there, no apartments?

RD: No, that's wrong. That's right where them houses is. A fellow Dobbins had that, and he had had land right on back from there. [Laughs].

C: Is that Black Dobbins or white Dobbins?

RD: White Dobbins.

C: Is there a connection to the name that you have and he has? Or is it--

RD: Not that I know of. He came from Floyd. I came from-

C: He came from Floyd?

RD: Yes.

C: So your family originated from where?

RD: Out where Piney Woods Road [inaudible 14:13].

C: So you had no connection?

RD: No, sir.

C: It's just a coincidence that they are Dobbins and you're Dobbins.

RD: That's right.

C: Okay. Some people might say, well maybe they had a plantation or something and maybe took their name for whatever reason.

RD: Not that I know of.

C: Okay.

RD: [Laughs]

C: How would you describe when you were growing up in Riner? Were there any whites living in the area or was it just primarily-

RD: There was whites living in our area, sure.

C: Well, how many Blacks lived in the Piney Woods section? I mean, just give an estimate of all the families when it was in its heyday before you left.

RD: Fifty [inaudible 14:47].

C: Fifty, a hundred, a hundred-fifty?

RD: There was seventy-five or one hundred, at least.

C: At least. So seventy-five to a hundred, at least?

RD: Yes, sir. There were a big bunch of them over there until they got older and died out and the young ones left, you know. There was a big bunch.

C: How many are probably left now, do you think? Twenty-five or less?

RD: [inaudible 15:17] Oh, I tell you, all that's over there now-

C: Fifteen?

RD: About fifteen. The Packs and the Joneses is about all that's over there now, ain't there Ethel?

Ethel Dobbins: What?

RD: Packs and Joneses all's over there now, ain't it?

C: Except for your cousin, I guess.

RD: Oh yeah, my cousin.

C: Yeah. When you were growing up did y'all have any-

ED: Did you mean the families or the [inaudible 15:44]

RD: Yeah.

ED: [inaudible 15:48]

C: Why don't you introduce your wife here?

ED: Bill and the other Pack boy.

RD: Well I said there was the Packs, but they don't [Inaudible 16:03]-

C: Mrs. Dobbins, why don't you introduce yourself? Your first name and your birth date and your birth place.

ED: No, no. I don't need to do that.

C: No, go ahead.

ED: No. That Billy and Wayne and the Joneses.

RD: Wayne doesn't live out there. Wayne is in Christiansburg. Wayne is-

ED: I'm talking about the new Wayne.

RD: Oh.

ED: And Billy and the Joneses, Al and them.

RD: Oh-

C: And Ola.

ED: Yes and [inaudible 16:37] and Judith.

C: [inaudible 16:40]

RD: Nadine Black.

ED: Nadine Black and Thomas.

C: You didn't grow up in that area? You grew up in the Lynchburg area. Why don't you introduce yourself officially?

ED: No.

C: Cause you're on the tape and someone is going to say, who is this lady on the tape?

ED: Oh, no. I don't-

C: Go ahead. Is it Ethel?

ED: Um-hm.

C: Ethel Dobbins. And you are originally from, what?

ED: Bedford.

C: Bedford?

ED: Virginia.

C: Virginia. And you married your husband in, what? 1937?

ED: Uh-huh.

C: And so that's why you moved to this--you never lived in Riner?

RD: No.

C: But you know a lot of the people?

ED: Yes, I do.

C: Okay. When you were growing up, Mr. Dobbins, what are some of the things Black people did in that area? Was there a Black store?

RD: No, no, sir.

C: There was no convenience stores then?

RD: Well, old John Day at one time had a store right there. Now, I didn't go to the store. No, John Day had a little old grocery store right out there where the school is, right down there. He sold produce and things like that.

C: John?

RD: John Day.

C: John Day.

RD: Yes.

C: Okay. Was he related to you?

RD: Yeah, he was my grandma's brother.

C: I see. How long did he operate his store?

RD: I couldn't tell you. I know it was about five or six years.

C: Five or six years. So, that was the only Black business in Riner?

RD: Yeah.

ED: [Inaudible 18:09]

RD: Huh? I said I know that long, Mama. I just don't know. But I just said that long. I don't want to over do that [Laughter].

C: Yeah, yeah. Well, how did people get along with the whites living in the Riner area, outside the Riner area?

ED: They got along real good-

C: There was no major problems?

RD: No, sir.

C: No fights?

RD: No, sir.

ED: No fights [inaudible 18:36].

C: No Ku Klux Klan activity?

RD: No, sir.

C: Were you comfortable, for instance, if you went in white areas, could you go into white areas of Riner or other places in the county?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: No problems?

RD: Never did have one. Somebody went around and took the old register. [Laughs]. They didn't bother me. But now, you couldn't go in there messing 19:00around. You know how it is. Back then, you couldn't mess around.

C: Yeah. Where did you shop? When you wanted to shop, there was only one store-

RD: Only two. Used to be one right there on the corner as you go into Piney Woods, and then there's one down called Childress, [Virginia], going down the road further.

C: Childress.

RD: Yes, sir.

C: Okay. Who owned these two stores?

RD: Mr. Reed owned the one on the corner. Down in Childress, Mr. Tom Howard, Tom and Gracie Howard owned the one down in Childress.

C: Okay. These were both white owners, right?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: When you went in there to shop, did they treat you fairly or did they-

RD: Yes, sir. They were nice as can be.

C: They didn't make light of the fact that you were Black and treat you shoddily, did they?

RD: No, sir. No, sir.

C: Okay. All right. Can you recall after the Supreme Court rule on Brown vs Board of Education and started the desegregation process? What was the reaction 20:00of many people, Blacks and whites, living in this area? This was around [19]54, [19]55 when the decision was reached. When they said, desegregation was the law of the land, and the segregation of school systems and so forth was going to be invalidated. What was the reaction of people in this area? Was there a big controversy? Were people publicly outraged? Did whites say, we're not going to take this, or, we're not going to allow desegregation. I mean, what was generally the response? There might be many, actually.

RD: I just don't know, to tell you the truth.

C: Okay.

RD: To tell you the truth.

C: Okay.

RD: Actually, that's about all I know.

C: Okay, one other thing, too, and that's social organizations. What kind of activities did Black people take part in socially? Did they have their own 21:00clubs? Especially in Riner, how did people socialize? Did they play baseball or basketball?

RD: They played baseball, I guess. That's about all they had.

C: Did they have clubs and stuff?

RD: No, sir.

C: No clubs?

RD: No, sir.

C: Are you familiar with the Odd Fellows?

RD: No, sir.

C: You--people weren't--you weren't

RD: I'm not familiar with no [inaudible 21:23].

C: What about the Household of Ruth or the-

RD: No, sir.

C: Independent Order of St. Luke?

RD: No, sir. I'm not-

C: So, you weren't-

RD: [inaudible 21:30]

C: No? Okay. Well, I think we've covered most of the ground here.

RD: Yeah.

C: Okay.

RD: About all I know. [Laughs]

C: Oh, well you've helped me a lot.

RD: Thank you.

C: Okay, we'll stop on that note.

[Break in interview]

C: We're resuming the interview. We didn't quite finish everything we covered. We talked about your kids, but we got sidetracked. Why don't you talk about your kids? You said they all left. Could you talk about their education and where they went? And why they, perhaps, left this area?

RD: [inaudible 22:03]

C: Oh, you can talk about each one of them.

RD: Harold-

ED: Two of them went to Howard University.

RD: Yeah, Harold, my oldest boy, he graduated from Howard University. He finished school here, and then he went to old C.I., finished C.I., and then went to Howard University, of course, and that's where he graduated.

C: I see. And what is he doing now, presently?

RD: He's a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force.

C: In the Air Force?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: And he's stationed where?

RD: He's stationed in the-

ED: Philippines.

RD: No, he ain't

ED: In Panama.

RD: Panama.

C: In Panama?

RD: In Panama, yes.

C: Okay. What about the other sons?

RD: Johnny, he finished school here, and then he went in the army.

C: Were some of them athletic?

RD: Unh-uh. No

ED: Athletic. Harold played basketball.

RD: Played basketball, yeah.

ED: Football, Harold played football.

RD: Played football, yeah.

C: At Christiansburg Institute, or?

ED: He played at Christiansburg Institute, and he played at-

RD: He played football-

ED: He played at Howard.

C: At Howard, okay. What else can you talk about some of the other sons you have?

ED: Well, there's two. Johnny and June is in--he worked for -- in the government.

RD: In the government.

ED: Johnny and June.

ED: Johnny and June. And Glenn is a personnel manager down in New Orleans.

C: Uh-huh. So they found opportunities outside this area?

RD: Yes, sir.

C: And they all seem to be doing well?

RD: Yeah, they are.

C: I meant all of them, they seem to be doing well.

RD: Yes, sir.

C: Okay, I think we-

RD: All of them got college degrees.

C: All of them have college degrees?

RD: Yes.

C: That's good. Okay, now I think we have completed the interview. We'll try 24:00again, unless something else comes up. Okay, we'll stop on this note.

RD: Yeah, I hope it don't--[Laughs]

[End of interview]