Oral History with Sarah J. Wade, March 14, 1991 (Ms1991-019)

Partial Transcript: Michael A. Cooke: Today is March 14, 1991. I’m conducting an interview with Sarah Wade of Blacksburg, Virginia. Mrs. Wade can you give us a brief sketch of your life, your birthday, birthplace, education, and occupation?
Sarah J. Wade: Well, I was born in Campbell County, Rustburg, Virginia 1918, April the thirtieth, and I came to Blacksburg 1939, January the fifth.
Michael Cooke: You remember the exact date?
Sarah Wade: Oh, yes. Yes.
Michael Cooke: [Laughs] [Inaudible 00:38]
Sarah Wade: But, as a child growing up, I grew up on a farm. My mother and father was farmers, and I’m one of fourteen children with nine girls and five boys.
Michael Cooke: Big family.
Sarah Wade: And, as far as education is concerned, as far as I went in school was through the seventh grade. And we worked all our life on the farm helping to rake, garden, corn, potatoes, whatever. You name it, we did it.

Keywords: 1918; Blacksburg, Virginia; Campbell County; corn; family farm; farm; garden; potatos; rake; Rustford, Virginia; Sarah Wade

Subjects: Agriculture; Education

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: Let me ask you one other thing. You said you went as far as the seventh grade. Was it high school in the county?
Sarah Wade: Not where we lived. There was one there, but it was so far away at that time there was no buses running. And we could not change schools we had [inaudible 1:28].
Michael Cooke: Where was it located?
Sarah Wade: That was in Rustburg, Virginia. That’s where the high school was.
Michael Cooke: So, they actually had one in the county?
Sarah Wade: Yeah, they had one in Rustburg, yes.
Michael Cooke: But they didn’t have a bus service?
Sarah Wade: Not at that time. Something I have had was sisters and brothers that they’re younger children. They had gone there, but I wasn’t there at that time. I left home when I was about fourteen years old when I started working, and I’ve been working ever since.
Michael Cooke: Ever since.
Sarah Wade: Yes.
Michael Cooke: Okay. Now you came here 1939-
Sarah Wade: Yes I did, fifth of January.

Keywords: education opportunities; high school; Rustburg, Virginia

Subjects: Education, secondary

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: What brought you to this great town of Blacksburg?
Sarah Wade: A friend of mine was already here working for a family of Wallace's [inaudible 2:05], and her friend’s was named [inaudible 2:16]. And they wanted to know if it was anybody there was as good as the maid that she had that she thought that she could get it and she could depend on. So, I went to school with this girl, and she gave them my address. And they wrote me the letter, and I respond by catching the bus. And I came to Blacksburg.
Michael Cooke: So you hadn’t met your husband then?
Sarah Wade: Oh, no.
Michael Cooke: You weren’t looking for a husband. You were looking for a job.
Sarah Wade: I was looking for a job. At that time, I was not working, and I was not looking for a husband. I was looking for a job. And I came here, and I got the job working for S. A. Wingard right on the corner of Church Street down here now they got a big office, you know.
Michael Cooke: What kind of work did he do?
Sarah Wade: He worked at [Virginia] Tech. He was in agriculture.
Michael Cooke: Oh, he was a professor?
Sarah Wade: Um-hm.
Michael Cooke: So you were working for?
Sarah Wade: I worked for them for seven months.
Michael Cooke: Was that a live-in situation?
Sarah Wade: Yes, it was. Yes, um-hm, yes. I lived in there. They had three boys, so I worked for them a while, like I said seven months. Then I left there and went working for different ones then on through. And the longest jobs I ever had, working all the jobs I’ve had, I’ve always said God gave me the very best ‘cause they were wonderful. I had no problem with none of them, even though all of them had children. But the children was well trained, and they were good. So, I felt like I was at home. And I worked from family to family up on up until the present time. For one lady I was there for thirty-three years. She didn’t have any children, but I worked for her for thirty-three years and just different ones. I don’t think I have to name all of these families.
Michael Cooke: Oh no.
Sarah Wade: Great.
Michael Cooke: [Laughs]. Did you live in the Clay Street area when you first-
Sarah Wade: I’ve always been in this area.
Michael Cooke: I guess you lived in terms of the families you worked for.
Sarah Wade: Yeah, I lived with the Wingards. They were the only ones I lived with.
Michael Cooke: Oh, that was the only one.
Sarah Wade: That was the only family.
Michael Cooke: Then you [inaudible 4:05].
Sarah Wade: I didn’t live with any family homes any more. I went to work.
Michael Cooke: Oh, I see.
Sarah Wade: Then, I moved over after I left her, I met them, the Wade family. And his sister Janie was there, so one day she said why don’t you come and stay with and help my mother with my son whiles I work because she’s not feeling well until you get another job. And then I came and started staying with them.
Michael Cooke: I see.
Sarah Wade: And then which I did get another job. And when fathering those jobs and years and going to and from work, I met the man I married.[Laughs] And we got married, and I still worked. And then after my children was born I began to raise my children after they were born-

Keywords: Blacksburg, Virginia; children; Church Street; Clay Street; domestic work; married; S. A. Wingard; Wade; Wade family; Wallace family; Wingard

Subjects: Blacksburg (Va.); Work Opportunities

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: When did you have your first children? About when?
Sarah Wade: I had my oldest son in November of [19]39. And my second child was [19]41 and my third child [19]42. That’s my three kids.
Michael Cooke: Okay.
Sarah Wade: But, I still worked. As they grew up, there was always someone home to look after them whiles I was at work. And after my baby girl, which was Anna, got into school then I got a regular job, a full time job cause they were in school. I didn’t have to worry running back and forth.
Michael Cooke: Back and forth. What kind of work did your husband do?
Sarah Wade: Oh he worked at the powder plant [Radford Arsenal] a while, but he most of the time he worked was in the cleaners.
Michael Cooke: Oh at the [Virginia] Tech cleaners?
Sarah Wade: He worked on [Virginia] Tech cleaners for a while until they closed that up over there. Then he came to Main Street and worked for the Sanderson Cleaners.
Michael Cooke: Oh the Sand—oh yeah.
Sarah Wade: Sanderson Cleaners.
Michael Cooke: Which is a Black-
Sarah Wade: No it’s white.
Michael Cooke: It is white then?
Sarah Wade: Yeah.
Michael Cooke: Someone told me it was a Black family that owned that.
Sarah Wade: No. No there’s only one Black clean [and] that’s in Christiansburg.
Michael Cooke: Okay, that’s Lester.
Sarah Wade: Lester [Inaudible 5:52].
Michael Cooke: Somebody gave me some misinformation.
Sarah Wade: Um-hm. Well, that’s it. They never had no Black cleaner here. It always had been white.
Michael Cooke: Now there had been pressers.
Sarah Wade: No, he was a presser and his brother was and James pressed for a while and Brisko did [6:06], but they all were Black.
Michael Cooke: You remember a Ray Carter?
Sarah Wade: I don’t know…no.
Michael Cooke: I guess he was a presser with [Virginia] Tech at one time. That’s probably-
Sarah Wade: Could have been before them because his father was a shoe maker.
Michael Cooke: Was it a person named Carter?
Sarah Wade: I don’t know. No. I don’t know what he did. And the man who used to work for him was a Goode [6:34]-
Michael Cooke: A Goode [6:38].
Sarah Wade: Uh-huh that worked for his father when he did shoes that went to campus. I think it’s five generations of them that worked over there.
Michael Cooke: I’m not sure how long Mr. Carter lived cause he might have died before you even was. There was evidence he was alive in 1937 but there’s no-
Sarah Wade: Yeah, I came in [19]39.
Michael Cooke: He could have passed.
Sarah Wade: Yeah.
Michael Cooke: And that’s why we don’t know.
Sarah Wade: I never heard anybody speak about him. Well, I never questioned about things.

Keywords: Anna Wade; Carter; children; Goode; James Wade; Lester; Main Street; Radford Army Ammunition Plant; Radford Arsenal; Sanderson Cleaners; Shoe maker; Virginia Tech Cleaners

Subjects: Radford Army Ammunition Plant (U.S.)

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: Well, tell us about the school situation in this area? When you were raising your children where did they go to school?
Sarah Wade: Well, they first started right up here right there on Clay Street.
Michael Cooke: Okay.
Sarah Wade: And then when they built a little school then for the Blacks over on Harding Avenue. And then they went there until they finished grade school, and then they went to Christiansburg Institute from here.
Michael Cooke: I see. Let’s talk about the school that was across the street on the same street you’re on. What kind of school was it a one room? Two room?
Sarah Wade: Two rooms. No. Was it two rooms? Was it a one room school up here or two rooms? Do you remember? Well, right up here, yeah. Were there two rooms or one room?
Thomas C. Wade: Two.
Sarah Wade: Ms. Nettie Anniston taught there. Lanzo Freeman taught there. Had to be a one room.
Michael Cooke: One or two. Nobody can remember at this point.
Sarah Wade: Listen, I think it was one room because I know I remember only one teacher being there at time. Cause Mr. Freeman-
Thomas Wade: [inaudible 8:20] was there.
Sarah Wade: They taught at the same time. I know Ms. Anniston taught for ten years before she switched schools, that was his cousin too.
Michael Cooke: I see. Everybody's related to-
Sarah Wade: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say. This was a family affair. But the kids went to school there, and they used to feed them there too. Ms. Amanda Rollins was a cook up there then.
Michael Cooke: And she was a member of-
Sarah Wade: The A. M. E. Church.
Michael Cooke: St. Paul A.M.E.
Sarah Wade: Yeah. And she was a cook up there. I used to pick up the cooking before down here at the store and see that it got down there by the morning for starting up the school [inaudible 8:52] she enjoyed it.
Michael Cooke: When they had your children go to Harding Avenue school did they have a bus or did they walk?
Sarah Wade: No, no, they just walked from here over there.
Michael Cooke: Over there. If for instance there had been some white students, do you think they would have the children walk that far?
Sarah Wade: Well, I don’t know. I believe at that time, yes they would have cause I see kids walking to the high school over there now anyway. Up and down there. Um-hm. That’s right over not too far apart.
Michael Cooke: No. No.
Sarah Wade: So, I’m sure they would have. I don’t think it would have been any different. At that time cause it didn’t you know last all that long, but I just don’t think it would have been any different.

Keywords: A. M. E. church; Amanda Rollins; Christiansburg Institute; Clay Street; Harding Avenue; Lanzo Freeman; Nettie Anniston; one-room; primary education; St. Paul AME; Thomas C. Wade; two-room

Subjects: Blacksburg (Va.); Primary Education

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: What about after they went to high school? Now, you said a number of your children went to high school. They had-
Sarah Wade: All three of my kids went to high school.
Michael Cooke: They couldn’t go to...Wasn’t there a high school-
Sarah Wade: It wasn’t integrated then.
Michael Cooke: So, they tore down that property-
Sarah Wade: Yeah and had then, that was a [inaudible 9:47] but they had the high school over there that was it.
Michael Cooke: And the white high school was placed-
Sarah Wade: The white high school was placed up over here, but at that time, that was my kids last year in high school anyway. And so nobody never came to me and said anything about, you know, them going there, so they didn’t. Because Christine’s children, she just had two to go there. Her one had a chance to finish there at the white school, but he refused. But, my kids finished in [19]57-
Michael Cooke: Or [19]59?
Sarah Wade: James finished in [19]59. Yeah. And Anna May finished in [19]60.
Michael Cooke: So by that time it was-
Sarah Wade: Didn’t really affect my kids at all. They never-
Michael Cooke: Did you feel any resentment they had to travel that long distance by bus?
Sarah Wade: At that time, it never crossed my mind. It never ever interfered [with] me. Even when they were talking about it, it didn’t bother me at all because I was going by the attitude that they had, these white and Black kids had. Yeah, I remember when they used to fight and all. That’s everywhere.
Michael Cooke: Yeah.

Keywords: Anna Wade; high school; James Wade; segregation

Subjects: Blacksburg (Va.); Education, secondary

Partial Transcript: Sarah Wade: But, when my kids were growing up before they all left home, they used to down here, where the civics center is, the parking lot there is now, that was a baseball place. I mean, they played ball there. Black and white played ball together there every evening through the summer months. Those kids played ball there every evening all summer.
Michael Cooke: So they had-
Sarah Wade: They had a wonderful time. And when the integration all started, a lot of the white kids they didn’t let it go. They used to come to me and ask me, why did they do this and why they had to be separated? Cause a lot of the kids didn’t understand it either. And I told them I couldn’t have them going to someone who was into this or doing this and they have their reasons and they have to give their reason cause I don’t know either cause I ask the same question. Why? What’s going on?
Michael Cooke: [Laughs]. The adults had more problems with the concept than the children.
Sarah Wade: For the children concerned, while they know, we are kids we are playing together. I told them, yeah I grew up with white kids too and played with them all my life and I never had no problem. So I said, that was back in the country in those days when people was I guess as mean then as they are now. But it just depends on where you are I’m guessing at the time. But, those kids had a wonderful time here playing together. And [Inaudible 12:07] shocked a lot of those kids. I mean, a lot of the white kids, as well as they did the Black kids, they didn’t say too much about it because black [inaudible 12:12]. I guess they figured they didn’t have too much to say anyway. But, far as they’re concerned and my children are concerned, honey, I didn’t have no problem with no kids. I didn’t have no problem with no where I went to work either, with the people that I work for when they had guests and children come to play, I had no problem with none of them. Whatever I said, they came there and they was told that Sarah is the head of the house here now. We are gone. Whatever y’all want done. Whatever she said goes, and I don’t want to hear no back talk. And I didn’t get none either cause they said you raised my children just like the way you raised yours, thank you. I raised them just like I raised mine. The little boy used to tickle me. I used to make him sit on a chair and set the time clock. And I said, if you hear that bell ring, you get up. If you don’t hear that bell ring, you don’t get up. And he would sit there. I didn’t have no problem with none of them. They were wonderful children.
Michael Cooke: So, in Blacksburg there was some tolerance of one another, to a degree.
Sarah Wade: Yes. If they had problems here—I’m sure they did—I would hear about a lot of them, but I don’t know. I think most of that was just a test because it didn’t last that long.
Michael Cooke: What about, for instance, if you wanted to go out to a restaurant or theater or something?
Sarah Wade: Well, now, they went up here, I was told, a bunch of the kids went up here on the hill when they….Well, they used to all go to the movie. But almost for Blacks there was nowhere to park, so they sit there up in the back and they never bothered going nowhere else. They just went all up there and sat down. And then when some big auction was coming here to play at [Virginia] Tech, and they went up here and had the bus turned up here on the hill. And the woman didn’t want to feed them, the people. So, some of the students, I was told—the white students on down on campus—went up there and they broke that up by ordering up all this food. If she wouldn’t feed them, ordered up all this food and then they all walked and left it, and told them if the food wasn’t good enough for them it wasn’t good enough for the white either. So, that broke her up, and she finally gave up the bus turn. So, that was over, too, right there.
Michael Cooke: When did this happen?
Sarah Wade: Oh that happened when [Virginia] Tech was having an officer came to get a play. I guess it was for the dance.
Michael Cooke: Was it a Black officer?
Sarah Wade: Yeah, um-hm. So the band-
Michael Cooke: Was it Elono Hampton?
Sarah Wade: I don't know which one the band was. One of the Black bands came, and this woman refused to feed the band. They got off the bus up there and there was an eating place in there too, and she refused to feed them. So the students just-
Michael Cooke: Were these cadets [inaudible 14:45]?
Sarah Wade: Yeah they were cadets.
Michael Cooke: So, they just simply took it upon themselves to-
Sarah Wade: Yeah, yeah. And they just did that and it’s all over.
Michael Cooke: So that practice no longer-
Sarah Wade: Yeah. They didn’t bother them anymore and nobody went. But, she just closed up. She wouldn’t keep it open any longer. She just turned it over to somebody else. She never bothered anymore. She gave it up.
Michael Cooke: She decided that this is what the white people feel then it’s time-
Sarah Wade: For me to pull the curtain down and leave. So that’s what she did. Which was nice. That’s why I said a lot of incidents happened, but I think depending on who you are at the right time and when all this happened cause, you know, I don’t care where we go, what we do, there will always be problems. Somewhere growing up, it’s never going to be where everything’s going to run smooth cause if it did, like the woman said, they wouldn’t have anything to write about or to talk about.
Michael Cooke: There sure wouldn’t. I wouldn’t have anything to write about or talk about.
Sarah Wade: It’s true. They wouldn’t have anything to do. So there's got to be some conflict in something all the time somewhere. But, had to make a big to-do about it. I never seen no—a lot of things people used to do—didn’t make no sense to me. I had never been a person for violence, no way. I always thought that this is God’s country, everything here belongs to God, and if He wants to, He could just have it all disappear just like it come to us. Just all leave. So, I say if people put more confidence in God, if they tried [inaudible 16:05] in people’s lives, it would be a much better community to live in. So, cause I tell all the people I work for—I always told them I was the oldest of all anyway, but I used to work for someone younger than I—I used to tell them, now you all have respect for my age. What do you want me to do today? [Laughs]. And, of course, they would laugh and say, okay Sarah whatever you say. It’s alright. But, I had wonderful people to work for. A lot of the kids, I mean, they used to be here. And they find, when they come to Blacksburg, they will come by to see me. And if they don’t, they will call. That’s why I say, I can’t say a lot of things these Black people tell me.

Keywords: ball; baseball; children; civics center; community; Elono Hampton; playing; tolerance; Virginia Tech

Subjects: Blacksbsurg (Va.); Race Relations

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: Do you think that might be because you were a woman, and you were a domestic servant and they kind of expected a certain social etiquette?
Sarah Wade: A lot of the white women have told me—and some of the men that I never worked for, but they knew me from going and coming—that I gave so much to people. I mean, I realized that what they say, you give so much and say you have a way of meeting people that attracts them, and if they had an evil thought it soon vanished. And [they] said, there’s something about you that’s different. And they say, they have highly respect for you. And I said, well I don’t see why do any different than anybody. But they said, maybe you don’t see it, but other people do. I had a man meet me one day on street and he told me—see I don’t care how. I never worked for the man, never been in his home, never met his wife. But I often seen him in the street, and we always talked. And he was a poem writer, used to write poems—And he said, oh, Mrs. Wade. He said, I don’t care how cloudy it is, how dark, whenever I see you, I see sunshine. And I said to him, I said well bless your heart-
Michael Cooke: [Laughs]. Yes, yes he was a poet.
Sarah Wade: And I said, well bless your heart. I says, thank you very much. And I’d go on down the street. And then, we used to meet somewhere down there, I don’t know why, but we had always met at that pool stop [17:57] on Christmas Eve. We was there. And he used to make Christmas cards and things, and he always gave me Christmas cards for my church. And they say that children used to come to me and asked me all the things that happened over the weekend and happening at homes and family. And they would come to me and ask me, and I used to ask myself that question, why do these children—Black and white—why do these kids come to me and ask me these questions? Lord, am I giving them the right answer? Am I supposed to be doing something?
Michael Cooke: You’re supposed to have the philosophical key to all problems.
Sarah Wade: Yeah I’m saying to myself, what’s going to answer the problem?. So I’ll tell ‘em, honey if you know that’s wrong, and you think it’s terrible, then when you grow up and you get married, you know you don’t do this to no family and to nobody else. If you think it’s so wrong now, if it’s wrong for you, it’s going to be wrong for your children too. So don’t you do it. That’s all I could tell ‘em.
Michael Cooke: Well, you told them a lot.
Sarah Wade: Well, I tell ‘em, I said, if you sign this that way, this is what you do. That’s the only thing I can tell ya. So, one of the girls said, well Lord have mercy. I wish I could get my momma and daddy come over here and sit and talk with you, cause she said, I’m having a time at home with my momma and daddy. I said well now, each one of you got to give one. I said, you got to listen to each other, and I said, you got to do this because you never make it pulling apart. I say, you have got to learn to love each other and learn to be able to communicate, but if you don’t, there’s always going to be conflict in the family. So, she said she’d go on home and tell ‘em. But when she came back, or something like that, she said, Ms. Wade I couldn’t get them to come but, she said, that’s alright I’m going to tell them everything you told me anyway. I said, well you go back and tell ‘em to love you and stop doing these things to you. And I said, you have a problem, I said, I’ll be sure when I go home to their parents and tell their children [and] tell parents about their problems because they’re not communicating together with one another enough, and they don’t trust each other. I say, now you go back and you just tell them that this is what you want for them to listen to you and you just talk to them.
Michael Cooke: You should have been a psychologist.
Sarah Wade: Well, they told me I should have been one. But, there is a lot of people, and I had a lot of people tell me—I mean I don’t even know the people—I meet them on the street and they tell me this. They told me there’s something special about me and was something special about my hands. I had a cousin that used to tell me when I was a kid growing up. She used to tell me all the time about my hands, she said, Sarah I wish I had hands like yours. That’s what my sisters have told me. I said, what is about my hands. They says, something about your hands. I just wish I had hands like you. I said, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. I’m here, a working slave just like you are. [They said], I don’t care. There’s still something about your hands. And they would tell me that. And I have all my life, I’ve had people on top of people, some I don’t even know, has told me that I had...Well I have these dreams, and I asked the minister about these dreams I kept having over and over. And I couldn’t figure them out, but he told me don’t worry. When God is ready for me to know, he says, He has a plan for you. But when He get ready for you to know about that pla, He will tell you. I said, good. When I saw him when I found out he was in the ministry, I was talking to him, and he had told me what had happened to him when he was a young man growing up and the dreams that he had. And he said, they did come true but, he said, it all happened in his family. Some of it was tragedy and some of it was good. Every bit of it happened. But he said, it told him when God was ready for him to know what it was, he would know.
Michael Cooke: He would reveal it.
Sarah Wade: Um-hm, and he would know.

Keywords: children; domestic work; respect; social etiquette

Subjects: Blacksburg (Va.)

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: What other Civil Rights things? Was there any protest or sit down demonstrations or sit-ins?
Sarah Wade: Yeah, they had a few down here. They told me—I never known anything about until it was over. My daughter told me that she was with-
Michael Cooke: Which daughter?
Sarah Wade: I only have the one, Anna.
Michael Cooke: Anna. Sorry.
Sarah Wade: That they was sitting in—at that time [Virginia] Tech’s drug store had a eating counter in there, and that they was in there...what’s the term? Anyway, wherever they were, she said she was in there, and this professor—cause he’s dead now—he came through and said—and they were eating. They had been served—and he came through and said, his expression was, what in the hell is this going on here now? And there's four of them sitting at the counter eating. And of course we knew him. We knew this man.
Michael Cooke: What was his name?
Sarah Wade: Oh, he’s dead now.
Michael Cooke: [Laughs] What was his name?
Sarah Wade: Pete Elliston. He was a lawyer too.
Michael Cooke: Pete Elliston. He was a professor or what?
Sarah Wade: I don’t know. All I heard was he was a professor. I don’t know what he did.
Michael Cooke: Maybe business or law or something like that.
Sarah Wade: I know he was a lawyer here. They said he had a law firm here. I don’t know. But anyway, that was the expression he used. She said, Mama why he always around tryin? I said, well the people was paying him, that’s why. I said, long as they were paying him, he can say whatever he wanted behind our back. When he gets up in front of our face, they praise you to your face and pat you on the back. But after your back is turned, I say, then you something else. That’s just the way it is. But I used to tell my own granddaughter—she went to an integrated school—when she first started school, I told her what was going to take place. I said, now they are going to call you all these names. I said, but if the little kids sit up and call you little nigger, I say, you say thank you. She’s like, oh grandma. I said, yes, you say thank you. I say, cause if you want a fire to go out, you don’t add kindling to it. So, you say, thank you. He’s going to wonder why you say thank you. She did it for a while. They kept doing it. So some little white boy said to her one day, Debbie why do you say thank you? Everyone calls you nigger. Why do you say thank you? She said, my grandmama told me that if anyone called me, the duty was for me to say thank you. He said, well why do you have to say thank you? She said, well, it wasn’t him who was doing it. It was his parents that taught him to say that, and so she said therefore it’s not the child. And so I said, I did. That’s exactly what I told her. That little white boy grew up and he learned and fell in love with Debbie. [Laughs].
Michael Cooke: So what was your granddaughter’s-
Sarah Wade: Debbie. She used to be a basketball player.
Michael Cooke: Debbie? What’s the-
Sarah Wade: Debbie Wade.
Michael Cooke: Debbie Wade.
Sarah Wade: Um-hm. She won a four year scholarship to [College of] William and Mary. Um-hm. And she finished. Now she’s working for [inaudible 23:54] up in Northern Virginia.
Michael Cooke: Oh, good.
Sarah Wade: Um-hm. Oh, that girl knows how to play ball.
Michael Cooke: She was a student during what time?
Sarah Wade: Oh, she was [inaudible 24:04] Debbie had just turned about two or three years old. Four or five years old. Debbie, she went to Blacksburg High [School].
Michael Cooke: So, even that late. I mean, as recent as...I mean that’s not that long ago.
Sarah Wade: Yeah. No. No.
Michael Cooke: And that’s long after-
Sarah Wade: And I have a granddaughter now. Just finished. This is her first year of college, and she went to Blacksburg High [School]. Donna. She’s going to Bluefield College. This is her first year in Bluefield College.
Michael Cooke: So even that late, I mean, people are still having-
Sarah Wade: Oh, yeah they’ve always done that. I said, this is always going to be...But you’ve got to learn to deal with it cause you know we have problems with our own race just like the whites have problems with their own race.
Michael Cooke: Um-hm. Yes.
Sarah Wade: And we have got to learn to deal with these things. Learn something nice to say. When they say something nasty to you, you don’t have to say something nasty back to them. Say something nice to them. Give them something to think about. Be well, this is the [inaudible 24:55]. I used to tell them when they used to come to me with all these problems. I said, honey, don’t worry about it, it's just a fever. It’s just a fever, it’ll be over after a while. Don’t worry about it.
Michael Cooke: [Laughs].
Sarah Wade: They would! They would come up, have them white people come up to me. A white woman had the nerve to tell me one time that she heard that her daughter—she hoped that her daughter [would] never date none [of] the Black boys. I said, so what if they did? She says, well I just hope my daughter—I said, well your daughter is no different than nobody else’s daughter. I says to her, same thing that went down years ago, I says, it’s coming up and going down again. So, I said, forget it. I see you look at them, and you tell them, you all take care of yourself. Children, behave yourself. I said, just say that and leave them alone. I say they will not continue this stuff. I swear as long as you’re pro and go on with this, they’re gonna keep on doing more and more getting deeper and deeper, so leave it alone. I say, honey, it’s a fever. It’s just a fever going around. It will go away after awhile. I used to tell them all that.
Michael Cooke: [Laughs].
Sarah Wade: And at the same time, her daughter—I had heard—she had been caught up in my son, but I didn’t tell him any different because there’s nothing wrong with. I said, honey, these kids are going to get together. She don’t know how many little white kids have come to my house, sat in my house, and asked me all these questions and told me things their parents told them, you know, about the Black and white. And I just told them, don’t worry about it, honey. It’s just a fever. Don’t worry.

Keywords: Anna Wade; Blacksburg High School; Bluefield College; Civil Rights; College of William and Mary; Debbie Wade; desegregation; drug store; Pete Elliston; race relations; racial slurs; sit down demonstrations; sit-ins

Subjects: Blacksburg (Va.); Civil Rights; Desegregation

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: All right. Off the tape, I mentioned to you a Reverend Archie Richmond. Would you regard him as somewhat of a Civil Rights zealot or?
Sarah Wade: He played a part in it. I guess, when he was arrested when he went to this park, you know of. Do you remember that?
Michael Cooke: I had heard something. Some specifics about—not many—I heard, was it a state park?
Sarah Wade: Yes and he was-
Michael Cooke: And what location?
Sarah Wade: I have the clippings of that. I was looking through some papers the other day where I thought I better keep a clipping.
Michael Cooke: [Laughs]. Good.
Sarah Wade: But I remember-
Michael Cooke: Do you remember what year that incident occurred?
Sarah Wade: No, I don’t.
Michael Cooke: [19]50s? Or [19]60s?
Sarah Wade: Go in there and pick up that paper. Where did I? I was going to use the paper for something and I...I didn’t read it. I just knew what it was, and I had it folded.
Michael Cooke: Um-hm. But, it was members of his church? Saint Paul?
Sarah Wade: Yes. And they went on a picnic, yeah. I heard they had some run in there, and they arrested him there. So, I say, I don’t remember where it was.
Michael Cooke: Do you think he deliberately flaunted the rules or the law?
Sarah Wade: I don’t know what actually happened there because, well, none of us was with him. I’m just going off what I read in the paper. You know how the media is.
Michael Cooke: You heard the second hand.
Sarah Wade: Yeah. They say when you get something second hand, everybody got to fix it to make themselves feel comfortable so…[Laughs].
Michael Cooke: Was he active in this area?
Sarah Wade: Oh, yes he was. He was wonderful. He had a little choir here. That man was great. He got the kids together, and had the Methodist and the Baptist children a choir. And they sang at the Baptist Church one Sunday and at the Methodist Church one Sunday. And he carried that little choir on a long while. Oh, he did the whole time he was here. We loved Reverend Richmond.
Michael Cooke: Did he do other things besides that?
Sarah Wade: Oh, I guess he did, but, you know, I only worked with him within the church.
Michael Cooke: Did he have good ties with the white community or at least the more local?
Sarah Wade: I don’t know.
Michael Cooke: You just don’t know.
Sarah Wade: I really don’t know. I really don’t know that about him. All I know, as I said, just church work.
Michael Cooke: Were there any other Blacks in this area that tended to take a position on racial equality?
Sarah Wade: I don’t know. Not to my knowledge they didn’t. Could have, but like I said.

Keywords: Baptist; choir leader; Civil Rights; leader; Methodist; park; picnic; Reverend Archie Richmond; Wytheville, Virginia

Subjects: Civil Rights

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: What about social organizations? What did people do to entertain themselves?
Sarah Wade: Oh, they had a little Black club here called the Blacksburg Social Club, and that was all Black.
Michael Cooke: Who were members of it?
Sarah Wade: They’re all dead.
Michael Cooke: Do you remember some of the people?
Sarah Wade: Well, Harris’s son, I think, he was the president of the whole thing. All those people back then had that, and all of those people are dead that had that Blacksburg Social Club.
Michael Cooke: That was for adults though?
Sarah Wade: Yeah. Yeah. That’s what they had.
Michael Cooke: What about the Odd Fellows?
Sarah Wade: They had Odd Fellow and [Independent Order of] Saint Luke both here.
Michael Cooke: Were you a member?
Sarah Wade: I was never a member of either one of them. And his father was. And now, all those are dead too. Cause nobody else, you know...
Michael Cooke: The younger people-
Sarah Wade: The younger people didn’t follow it up. Like I said, a lot of these things went along, but the children coming along didn’t even get into it, didn’t keep it going. Just whatever. All of them died, everything just died right with them.

Keywords: Blacksburg Social Club; Independent Order of Saint Luke; Odd Fellows

Subjects: Independent Order of St. Luke (Blacksburg, Va.); Social Organizations

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: Let me ask you the following question: why’d so many children leave—or the younger people in this community leave? I'm talking about Blacksburg and maybe elsewhere.
Sarah Wade: Well, I don’t know.
Michael Cooke: I guess with the exception of your children. All your children are living in this area, right?
Sarah Wade: Well, my oldest son, he don’t live here anymore. He went in service when he was seventeen. I had to sign for him. I didn’t want him to, but he had a group of white kids here. Every time I turned around, a bunch of white kids called him a redneck. They were always in a fight, always in a fight. And he said he didn’t want to be fighting, gong like this all the time, with these white kids. And he decided, he and Alan Price—Christina’s son Alan—they went into service together. I didn’t want to sign until the minute the Lieutenant came. And he said, ma’am Ms. Wade, he said, I think he’s doing a wonderful thing because a lot of these kids is really getting out of hand. He says, there’s got to be some separation somehow, but he says, if he really want to do it, let him do it. I says, well I feel terrible signing my son away somewhere. And he says, no he wants to do this. [I said,] okay I hope he makes it. So, I sign the paper and off my son went. John the Airborne. He was one of those screaming Eagles. He was in the service for eleven years. Oh, he made it, another flying fellow. And Alan, he stayed, he was a paramedic. But he only stayed two years, but Thomas stayed eleven. And then my brother-in-law’s son, he went into service. And this other Todd boy that come up a lot with them, he goes in service. The kids then that’s the oldest always checking himself in to the Armed Services.
Michael Cooke: Why do you think that? Did people think there were no jobs here?
Sarah Wade: Well, there was no jobs here really, for none of the kids, truly. There was no jobs here.
Michael Cooke: Could they work at [Virginia] Tech?
Sarah Wade: No, not then. There was nobody working at [Virginia] Tech as far as Black [people] was concerned but the pressers. That’s all [inaudible 31:41] what they used to call faculty department then. That’s the name of it then. And they had some Black in the kitchen then, but that was it. There was no Black on the campus or nowhere else. Unless some professor moved on the campus, and....come to think of it, I guess that’s where I got my name from. Guess I worked on the campus, but I did work for a family. They moved on the campus. He was a professor in English. And I continued to work on...they used to live over on Lee Street, and when they were living over there, I still continued to work for them. And I guess that’s where they got my name from on campus. I had a problem with my Blue Cross Blue Shield. They kept telling me I worked on campus. I did. But, I was thinking about the faculty department and the departments don’t like that because my sister-in-law was working at the faculty department.
Michael Cooke: Very few Blacks-
Sarah Wade: Very few Blacks was on the campus.
Michael Cooke: Was that deliberate or Blacks-
Sarah Wade: Well, I guess that’s just the way it was. I don’t think it was nothing priority ahead of time or something like that. I just think it just the way it was.

Keywords: community; migration; military service; Virginia Tech; work opportunities

Subjects: Blacksburg (Va.); Virginia Polytechnic Institute; Work Opportunities

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: Let’s see. So, you said some of the people went into the military. Did people on Clay Street? I mean, can you recall the Black families living on Clay Street?
Sarah Wade: Well that’s all the Black families, on Clay Street—
Michael Cooke: Was Todd?
Sarah Wade: No, he didn’t live on Clay Street.
Michael Cooke: Oh, he didn't?
Sarah Wade: No. Now, he’s one of those boys that...his parents lived on Grissom Lane. Of course, they’re all dead now.
Michael Cooke: Oh, yeah. You know a Pat [inaudible 33:08]?
Sarah Wade: No. Right where my son’s house is. His mother lived there because he tore down that old house, and that brought up his cousin, in one of the pictures I showed you. And my son bought that lot there and built his house there. There was an old house there and these retired fellows used to live there. His mother used to live there.
Michael Cooke: Oh, I see.
Sarah Wade: But he’s still in the service somewhere. I don’t know where. In Germany was the last time now that I think about it.
Michael Cooke: Any others?
Sarah Wade: The other kids on the street. My nephew, Sonny Sherman. They used to live over by the same house, my sister-in-law and his sister.
Michael Cooke: Was the Sherman's connected to the people at Wake Forest, [Virginia]?
Sarah Wade: Yeah. Yup, yup, yup. His father was from Wake Forest.
Michael Cooke: I see.
Sarah Wade: Clarence Sherman and Irma Sherman. They were their uncles, cousins.
Michael Cooke: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I’m familiar with those. When they left where did-
Sarah Wade: And they went into service, too.
Michael Cooke: Oh, they went in service?
Sarah Wade: And then they went away for years. Yeah, they went in service
Michael Cooke: Seems like everybody in this street went into the service.
Sarah Wade: Oh, yeah. Well Sonny, he didn’t go to the service until after he left here.
Michael Cooke: Were they drafted?
Sarah Wade: No, he volunteered. Sonny did go. He had a job, and he had a job every time and always finishing it and there’s no point in doing this kind of work when the jobs run out. So, he got tired going from job to job. So, he said, well I’m going to the army for a steady job. So, he went into service.

Keywords: Clarence Sherman; Clay Street; Grissom Lane; Irma Sherman; Sonny Sherman; Wake Forest, Virginia

Subjects: Blacksburg (Va.)

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: What kind of jobs could one get if they weren’t?
Sarah Wade: There wasn’t anything for young people, really, because they was building all those big buildings and things on the campus at the time when my kids were growing up. My son used to help tear down some of the buildings over there. Contractor coming here from somewhere, and he hired my son and he paid the boy and they had to tear down some of those old buildings up there when they was building. But outside of that, that didn’t last for some time a week and that was it.
Michael Cooke: So no steady-
Sarah Wade: Wasn’t no steady work for a youngster to do at all. My son used to wait on tables a little bit down here in town in one of the hotels used to be on the corner down there. But that didn’t last long either because that man soon closed up and went out of business. So he gave up and put the kids out here in the street.
Michael Cooke: So there was no alternative but to go either the military or find some other place north.
Sarah Wade: To live, and that’s why a lot of my family left to even to go to work. They would go with the people they were working for. Wherever they would move to, they would continue to stay with them and go with them. By looking at it, no more kids growing up here. That’s why there was no more kids left.
Michael Cooke: Yeah. I’ve noticed that—I was looking through the census materials—and at one time the Black population in this area was over 25 percent of the population was Black. That’s hard to imagine.
Sarah Wade: Yeah that’s true. That was years and years and years ago because they had large families then and a lot of people came here and lived. I was told about different areas —and I always have lived all over town—and I was told that all these people—now this woman was writing a book over here on Wharton Street. She died. Little white woman lived over there. And she was writing a book, and she called me one time and asked me. And I said, honey don’t ask me about those people because I didn’t live in Blacksburg when those people were here. And she was telling me about all these people. I didn’t know them. Then I asked him—that’s before he, you know, he had his brain damage—and he was telling, he said, Lord, yeah. He said, there used to be people here, Black people here, [inaudible 36:23] Ms. Mayme Glenn used to live over on-
Michael Cooke: Oh yeah.
Sarah Wade: Clay Street. And I was asking her and everyone would come down on this colored road and all these people used to be here [36:29]. I didn’t know her, but that was before I came to Blacksburg.
Michael Cooke: Yes, really, it’s-
Sarah Wade: There really was Black people here.
Michael Cooke: At one time?
Sarah Wade: Um-hm. And now they just thinning out. There’s none left.

Keywords: construction; population decline; restaurant; Virginia Tech

Subjects: Blacksburg Demographics; Work Opportunities

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: Yes. Well let’s see I think we have covered all the ground we can, and on that note, I guess we can conclude the interview. And I’d like to thank you for your participation.
Sarah Wade: Well, I hope you helped you a little bit.
Michael Cooke: Oh you have. Oh! One last question.
Sarah Wade: What’s that?
Michael Cooke: And that is the home, the lady who had the boarding home for Black students. You know much about that situation, the people that were involved who were boarding students?
Sarah Wade: Oh her? All I know there were two, one of the people that lived there. She always had this home—No one else ever. I believe it was her home—and she always kept people. Even the people that used to come in from Richmond, Professors, you know, that couldn’t stay on campus. And they would stay at her house and go to the meetings down here. And she kept those students until they finished, and she called her children. That’s the only one I knew who kept students. But by the time all of that past and went out then gradually. Now, [James Leslie] Whitehurst, he was one of the students that used to be over there. I think he was, he was on campus for some reason or another, and he had a run in with Professor Newman. Used to be. Well, he’s dead now.
Michael Cooke: You’re talking about the doctor-
Sarah Wade: Dr. Newman.
Michael Cooke: Walter S. Newman? The president?
Sarah Wade: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. He had a run in with him or something. When he went on campus, something about a dance that was going to be...the Ring Dance.
Michael Cooke: The Ring Dance.
Sarah Wade: And he had a run in with him but-
Michael Cooke: He was a student?
Sarah Wade: Yeah.
Michael Cooke: A Black student?
Sarah Wade: Yeah. Um-hm.
Michael Cooke: He wanted to go to the Ring Dance?
Sarah Wade: Ring Dance-
Michael Cooke: And Dr. Newman didn’t want him to go.
Sarah Wade: Something about it happened. Something happened, and he didn’t want him to go. But I think he finally won over and went, but I don’t know how it really come up. But there was a clipping that told me was in the paper, Roanoke Times. And they said the boy wrote up a letter. I’ve been trying to reach him. I don’t know where he is, but I asked Winston about him, and did he know where he is? Because I was interested in it and I wanted to get the paper-
Michael Cooke: Now [Matt] Winston is the one...you’re talking about-
Sarah Wade: Winston is still here, too. He’s staying over here too.
Michael Cooke: Right. He was one of the first Black—I can’t think of his name. His son is now—
Sarah Wade: His son is over here now at [Virginia] Tech. But now, we call him Matthews. Matthew Winston, and he was my little pet. [Laughs]. He used to come over the house all the time. [He said,] oh Sarah, I’m hungry. I don’t have anything to eat. Just some piece of sliced bread and some peanut butter would be just fine. [I said,] All right. Okay. Go on in, find whatever you want. But they were really nice boys. I told them—the last two that came—they were so wild. I used to tell them all the time. I said, why can’t you be nice like those other boys [Inaudible 39:12]. I say, we have no problems, and I said, why are you all so wild? Why are you so rough? I said, you turned up that lady’s house. I say, she is nice enough to let you come and stay. I say, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves. They played so, those two boys, they just played and they were so rough and they were acting like they were outdoors. Playing in the house, and, of course, it upset the old man because he was sickly, and I couldn’t get them to see that. So, finally she had to let them go.
Michael Cooke: Oh.
Sarah Wade: Yeah, she finally put them out. She just couldn’t keep them on. They just wouldn’t listen. And I just told them, well I can’t blame...I said, don’t look at me because you can’t stay in my house either. I say, because you’re so. There’s no sense here. [inaudible 39:48]. They said, well aunt Sarah, if we come, you’ll give us a piece of bread, a piece of meat, won’t you? I said, I don’t know I’ll think about it. I said, I’ll see what you look like when you get here. [Laughs]. But I did, I used to feed those kids. [inaudible 40:02] Two of them said that I was their aunt. Two of them I was their third mama cause their mama was the first, Ms. Jenny was the second, and I was number three mama. And finished, he finished. Yeah, used to be over there too. He used to come by here too. He used to write me. I don’t know what ever ever happened to him. I haven’t heard from him in a long time. But he used to come by. He spoke of [Virginia] Tech several times since he’s been away.
Michael Cooke: Well I guess now we have completely covered-
Sarah Wade: Covered Blacksburg.
Michael Cooke: Yes.
Sarah Wade: But a few handfuls are left here in Blacksburg?
Michael Cooke: Oh. Yeah.
Sarah Wade: Well, it was life here like I said, as far as I’m concerned. I don’t what those other people went through life [inaudible 40:41] job or where they work and the things they would tell me that other people doing to them. I told them, I don’t know nothing about it. And thank God I don’t have to be bothered with it. If I did, I wouldn’t stay. I would just walk away and say, thank you and I see you later. I say, I just wouldn’t stay. I wouldn’t stay there and continue if they was treating me that way because you don’t have to stay. And I said, if you gonna stay, don’t talk about it and leave it alone. Just go ahead on [inaudible 41:00] don’t say nothing about it. Just stay down and take it.

Keywords: boarding students; James Leslie Whitehurst; Professors; Ring Dance; Students; Walter S. Newman

Subjects: Virginia Polytechnic Institute

Partial Transcript: Michael Cooke: Okay. Okay, I think we have now finished again. I think we are finished for the final time. Thanks again for your participation.
Sarah Wade: Oh, well you’re welcome.
[End of Interview]