Oral History with Phillip Price, February 1, 1996 (Ms2003-011)

Begin Tape 1, Side 1

Kennelly: Where are you from originally?

Price: Here.

Kennelly: Blacksburg?

Price: Blacksburg, yes.

Kennelly: So your family is from this area?

Price: Yes they are.

Kennelly: Did your parents grow up here too?

Price: My father [Leonard Price], I think, grew up in Floyd county. My mom [Christine Page Price], she grew up in Pearisburg I think. She moved here when she was about eight years old. My father moved down by the cheese factory. Somehow they met and got married. There's nine of us--seven boys and two girls.

Kennelly: Do you know why they came to Blacksburg?

Price: I think from Pearisburg, I think they came because his father died, and 1:00they were given forty acres of land. I think that was the time they were given land to be settled around the early 1900s. But, my mom, her father used to work in the coal mines, and he lost his leg, and I think that's why they came this way. Both of them settled up on Roanoke street. His family bought the house right down below my grandfather's house, and eventually when my Mom and Dad got married they bought the house next door. After my grandparents on my father's side died, they moved down to the house on Roanoke Street.

Kennelly: So the house on Roanoke was your father's parents'?

Price: Yes, my father's mother. His homeplace after moving up from the cheese factory.

Kennelly: Was he working in the cheese factory?

Price: No. I think he was working at Tech in the dormitories over there at one time.

Kennelly: That's your father's father?

Price: No. My father's father [Phillip Price] died before they moved over from Floyd.

Kennelly: So your father was working over at Tech in the dormitories?

Price: Right.

Kennelly: What was he doing over there?

Price: I think he was a janitor.

Kennelly: Did your mother work?

Price: Yes, she did. She does, well she still works today. She cleans homes and all. She's a domestic worker. He left Tech and went to work for--he did house cleaning and all too during the day, and then he'd work at night. When he moved from Tech, he went to ElectroTech, the electronic place down the road, ElectricTech. He worked there, him and Mom both worked there at night as janitors. Eventually Mom stopped working there and went back to doing housework in between raising all of us.

Kennelly: That's a lot to do! What happened with the family land then? You said there were forty acres your family had.

Price: They sold it to move up and buy the property there on Roanoke Street.

Kennelly: Your father was originally from Floyd?

Price: From Floyd, yes. The Price side of the family. They moved to Floyd from Martinsville down in that area.

Kennelly: Do you know where your parents went to High School?

Price: My parents? They would have gone to Christiansburg Institute.

Kennelly: May I ask how old you are?

Price: I'll be fifty in ten days.

Kennelly: Were you parents at all politically active?

Price: No. They voted and everything; they were active in that form. They were 5:00civic- minded in a lot of ways. They did attend the PTA meetings and things like that. Very active in church activities.

Kennelly: What church?

Price: First Baptist Church around on Clay Street. My grandfather on my mother's side was one of the original ones to help start it up. Gave money to help start it up.

Kennelly: What's his name?

Price: John T. Page

Kennelly: So he was one of the founders of the church in the sense that he helped provide financial--?

Price: Right. That's the church my Mom goes to now. She's been there since the beginning. She's eighty now.

Kennelly: She's still living around in Blacksburg?

Price: She lives up on Roanoke Street still.

Kennelly: Oh, she's still in that house, in the family house.

Price: Still in the homeplace.

Kennelly: Did they belong to the NAACP?

Price: I don't think so. You mean when I started school and all?

Kennelly: Yeah.

Price: No, I don't think they did.

Kennelly: When you were growing up that wasn't--. So more civically active in the sense of going to church and PTA, school things?

Price: Church and PTA, right. And social things. My Mom said my father used to call figures and all for square dancing. He could play anything with strings on it. They loved to dance. so they were real busy in that.

Kennelly: Oh, he would call dances for square dances. Did he play in a group?

Price: I don't know. I know Mom said that he played at the square dances, called the figures and all.

Kennelly: The square dance was where?

Price: I guess right here in this area--in town.

Kennelly: Would those be like integrated dances?

Price: I don't know, I'd have to ask Mom. I don't think so.

Kennelly: I didn't know they were having dances, that's interesting. You grew up in Roanoke Street then?

Price: Yeah, I grew up right down below the cemetery. It's 506 Roanoke Street. My grandparents home was on the right side of us. Which now my brother owns that property. That became the dividing line for schools now. They use Roanoke Street 8:00for where the children will go to school and all.

Kennelly: So actually there were three houses then? Not when you were growing up I guess, later on your brother got a house there. He's got a house there now you said.

Price: Right. My family owns a house behind us too. My uncle [James Price] lived there. It was sort of a tight little circle.

Kennelly: You had a lot of family when you were growing up right around you. Was that neighborhood segregated, integrated when you were growing up?

Price: I guess starting at Rutledge going back up toward the cemetery, that 9:00whole area in there was just about all segregated except for a few houses on the corner of Lee and Rutledge where the Allens lived. I think from Rutledge up to the cemetery it was primarily where most of the blacks had settled. Now most own still all that property too.

Kennelly: Was the church that most people went to, was that the First Baptist?

Price: On Clay Street, right. There was small groups of blacks around there too. 10:00We had let me see how many--about eleven families there between Roanoke Street and Lee Street. Then we had probably ten or twelve families out in what we used to call New Town off of Progress over near where the power plant is on Tech. Then we had an area around on Clay Street where you had about four for five families too. Then we had what we called "Down the Mountain," which was off of Grissom down there. We had about ten or twelve families also. That primarily made up the 11:00black population. Groups like that. Then you had what is called Wake Forest down near Longshop and down there.

Kennelly: Sounds like you were very conscious of where people were actually. You really can remember so clearly ten families here and--

Price: I guess that's because that's basically where you socialized and all at that particular time. Except for down the street on Roanoke Street we had friends down that way. The Martins and the Mexlers and children like that that 12:00we'd all play together on Roanoke Street. So we had white friends we visited and played with and all. I mean for social purposes that was generally the areas that we went to.

Kennelly: So you had both, like you just mentioned, a few families that you had white friends. How did you get to know those kids that you played with?

Price: They just lived a couple of houses down from us.

Kennelly: So you just kind of got to know them just like neighbors. But your real social life I suppose as far as your parents and stuff go--

Price: It's primarily always been separate I think. At least that's the way it was when I was growing up. As far as dances and all like that goes. The nightspots, they were all segregated. Around here you didn't have that many places we could go to. So maybe every once in a while somebody would open up a joint where they'd play records and go dancing and things like that. But mostly we went to Radford and Christiansburg for nightlife or social life.

Kennelly: Where were the nightspots in Blacksburg? Are they still going?

Price: No, I don't think so. The only one that I remember was off of Woolwine 14:00Street, up behind--in the alley was where we called it. It was just a house they had turned into--they had put a jukebox in and it was a place you could dance get sodas and all like that.

Kennelly: It was kind of informal in the sense but somebody just decided to make their home a club?

Price: They rented it--

Kennelly: --as a club. Do you recall as a child growing up, was race a big 15:00factor? Did it come into you consciousness much? Was it a painful factor?

Price: I was aware of it, but it didn't really take hold because Blacksburg was a small community then. Like I said, the kids down the street we'd be playing with them--ball and hide-n-go- seek and all those type things anyway. We just accepted that we couldn't go to school with them, but after school sometimes we'd even go down to what was the softball field down behind the armory, and we played softball games and all like that. Or we'd go up on what is the Middle School now, we'd have say pick-up football games and all like that where we'd all get together and play.

Kennelly: Were the restaurants and the eating places downtown integrated? Could 16:00you go?

Price: We had to go to the back door.

Kennelly: Did that bother you doing that?

Price: Well, that's all I knew at the time. I never did pay that much attention to it. You were aware of it. Eventually I ended up in my last year up at Blacksburg, the two years I was up there I worked for the Lyric Theatre taking the tickets for the section upstairs. We couldn't go in downstairs, we had to 17:00come the side door, and I'd be standing there taking up their tickets and all. Taking their money.

Kennelly: I working on an exhibit of Lyric materials, that's kinda interesting that you were working there. You don't have any photographs from that time do you?

Price: No, I don't.

Kennelly: Was that a popular thing? Did a lot of people go to the movies there?

Price: It would depend on the movies but normally we'd have maybe two, three a night and on the weekend it'd pick up more.

Kennelly: Would your family go out to eat much when you were a kid? Growing up, before you got into high school, like just as a kid would they take the whole family out?

Price: Maybe on picnics or something like that.

Kennelly: But not to--I guess with so many kids! How many kids all together in your family?

Price: Nine. Seven boys and two girls.

Kennelly: That's major. So with the restaurants you had to go in the back door, but then did everyone sit where they wanted to sit or were you seated in a special section?

Price: Most of the times we weren't seated. We could get things to take out. Like up at what use to be the bus terminal, do you know where that is?

Kennelly: No.

Price: Do you know where the BevNet office is on Main Street?

Kennelly: Yeah.

Price: Down in that next block on that corner coming back going South. Up at that hill, well there used to a shoe store in that block and the Greek restaurant and all, do you know where that is?

Kennelly: Yeah.

Price: OK, you go up the hill and that building sitting on the corner there used to be the bus stop. You'd have to use the back door and things like that.

Kennelly: So it was getting carry-outs rather than actually going and sitting down and having everyone served like that?'

Price: Well that was the same way at the Lyric Shop. We couldn't sit at the 19:00counter at the time.

Kennelly: There was a shop in the Lyric?

Price: Yeah, there was a fountain, sold the candies and the sodas and ice cream and things like that.

Kennelly: With like stools or seats or something?

Price: Right, on one side. We were not allowed to sit on those stools. Like I said, the bottom two floors in the theatre were for the whites, and the top floor was for the blacks.

Kennelly: Did that make people upset?

Price: We thought we had the best seats, really. At the time I don't think there was that much tension. Here in Blacksburg anyway. It was something we grew up with, and we just had learned to accept it. Everybody wasn't happy with it but it was something that you learned to live with.

Kennelly: Do you recall when that changed then with the Lyric?

Price: Probably shortly after I left. I left in [19]63 so I don't know for sure the date. As long as they needed somebody upstairs to take up tickets it wasn't integrated. It was, after I left, a couple of years probably.

Kennelly: Sometime in there. I suppose there was a lot changes in the [19]60's 21:00anyway but that would be a period when it would have changed.

Price: But it would probably have been the latter part of the [19]60's or [19]70's--

Kennelly: --before it actually--.Now where did you go for elementary school?

Price: I went to Harding. Well, I started off on Clay Street; we had a school. The black school was on what is now the park, the Middle School. It was on Clay Street on Middle School property.

Kennelly: So there was a school that you started off with that was just a black school?

Price: Right. We had two rooms.

Kennelly: What was it called?

Price: Blacksburg Elementary I guess. I went there until the fourth grade, to the third. Then we moved over into Harding I think for my 5th, 6th, and 7th 22:00grade. It was on Harding Avenue.

Kennelly: Originally at that all black school did that go through kindergarten or first through eighth?

Price: Right, first grade through seventh, first through seven. Then we have to go to Christiansburg Institute eighth through the twelfth.

Kennelly: What did you think about your education for those first years up to 4th grade at that school? Did you think it was a good education that you were getting?

Price: Well, yeah. I guess those are the years you're not much aware really of what's going on as far as whether it's a good education or not. You knew you were getting an education. Then we moved to Harding Avenue that was still all 23:00black then.

Kennelly: Oh, Harding Avenue was all black then. I didn't know that.

Price: It just, I guess, changed a couple of years after I had went to Blacksburg High School. Everything started changing.

Kennelly: So the first school you went to, can you estimate in a rough figure about how many kids were there? You said there were two rooms.

Price: Two rooms, yeah. You go through first through the third grade, and then you'd go from the fourth to seventh over in the other room.

Kennelly: Oh so it was kind of a mixed, sort of like the new theory.

Price: We didn't have separate classrooms.

Kennelly: And just two teachers and a principal?

Price: One of the teachers was I guess you'd call the principal.

Kennelly: About how many students were in your class?

Price: I guess anywhere from I'd say maybe thirty on up maybe. To my guess I would say maybe thirty or thirty-five per classroom.

Kennelly: Big classes for the size--

Price: I might be exaggerating, but I think that's--maybe a little smaller. I'd say from twenty to thirty per class.

Kennelly: Were you the first group that went over to Harding?

Price: Well the whole school. They shifted the whole school over there. Over there we only had two classrooms too.

Kennelly: Who else was taking up the rest of the space over there?

Price: There was just two classrooms at the time.

Kennelly: Oh, I see. I haven't actually been in Harding, so I don't exactly know what it's like. So it was just two rooms there too?

Price: Right. Two big rooms with sliding door in between to divide the classrooms. We gave out plays and everything during school. One side of the school would give plays and all that stuff.

Kennelly: Were you moved into a brand new school then? Was Harding a brand new school when you moved into it? You were the first class that went in there?

Price: Yes. I was part of--all seven classes went in. That time they completely closed the other one down. Over on Clay Street.

Kennelly: Did they have a principal at that point over at Harding when they moved you over?

Price: Like I said maybe one of the teachers would be considered the principal 26:00but there was just two teachers.

Kennelly: OK, so it wasn't' like you're conscious of this other person walking around-- just the two teachers?

Price: No, you had two teachers, and they lived in the community. It was community sort of raising at the time. Because whatever you did got back to your parents. Any of the adults could discipline you and tell you to stop doing something, and you very well would listen. 'Cause you knew your parents would find out if you didn't. Same way with school. So we pretty much stayed out of trouble like that, knowing that somebody could possibly see and tell your 27:00parents. That was in both the whites and the blacks. At least it felt like everybody knew my father and Mom.

Kennelly: Pretty much a sense of community in a way for the students in that people would all know you?

Price: In the growing up part too. In our playing and all that sort of thing.

Kennelly: When you were growing up, it felt like a safe neighborhood say because it wasn't--

Price: You could walk well up on the hill, where we lived, you could walk into anybody's house, and the doors would be open, wide open and all like that.

Kennelly: Really.

Price: I had some friends say, "Well we walked through your house all the time nobody was home!" I said, "OK." Our house was sometimes a place where most of the kids would come because we had so many kids there. I guess it was sort of like a neighborhood gathering place, for those on the hill anyway.

Kennelly: People were trusting sounds like. Where are you in your in your brothers and sisters? Where are you in the family of children?

Price: I'm in between. Four older and four younger.

Kennelly: So you're right in the middle. You went to CIT for eighth grade?

Price: I went the eighth, ninth, and tenth.

Kennelly: You had to take a bus over there?

Price: Yes. There's a bus that would start down in Wake Forest, the Longshop area. The driver would be down there, and so he'd pick up the kids there, and he'd come on up and pick up all the kids here in Blacksburg. Then we'd head down to Vinton, no Vickers. We'd go out to where Triangle Lanes is, and we'd have to turn down that road, and we'd go back down in there to Vickers. We'd come out--I'm trying to remember, maybe pick up one or two from Cambria then go to school.

Kennelly: It took awhile to get to school with all the pickups?

Price: Yes, it did.

Kennelly: What was that experience like at CIT?

Price: It was Christiansburg Institute.

Kennelly: I'm sorry, I don't know where I got the "T" from. Excuse me.

Price: Well, it was--

End Tape 1, Side 1

Begin Side 2

Kennelly: You were in the band, you said?

Price: Yes. If you were into any of the extracurricular activities, you 31:00basically had to find your own way home after school. So if you were in the band or played football or baseball or did any of that kind of stuff, then you'd end up thumbing home or walking home from Christiansburg.

Kennelly: Walking home?

Price: Yes, some of us did it.

Kennelly: Did you ever walk?

Price: Yes. If that was the only way. If nobody would pick you up, you'd have to walk.

Kennelly: That's quite a walk.

Price: Yes.

Kennelly: What did you play in the band?

Price: I was trombone.

Kennelly: How far is that for a walk?

Price: It's about twelve, thirteen miles, something like that. It's not real far I don't think.

Kennelly: I think to kids today they couldn't even imagine walking home from Christiansburg.

Price: A lot of times people would pick you up if you're thumbing. It was pretty good. I didn't have to do that many times though.

Kennelly: Was the band pretty good that you were in?

Price: Oh yeah. I used to love it. We'd play for the Christmas parade here in Blacksburg and the Christmas parade over in Christiansburg and places like that. And for the football games.

Kennelly: What did you think of the education you were getting over there at the Christiansburg Institute?

Price: I thought it was great. At the time education really wasn't one of my 33:00high priorities. But I thought it was pretty good. Basically, I don't too much remember how I got picked for Blacksburg High. But just that summer they were looking for, were asking some people if they wanted to go. I said, "Yeah, I'll go." Didn't realize what I was getting into.

Kennelly: Who was asking people to go?

Price: I don't remember who. I think it was just part of the community, the teachers. I think they were asking all the parents if they wanted to send us.

Kennelly: So was it coming, do you think, from the school itself, or was if from the community?

Price: I think it was coming from probably the School Board.

Kennelly: So somebody asked you if you wanted to go, and you said--

Price: Yeah.

Kennelly: Was it something that was on your mind. Like, "Why am I going thirteen miles to school when there's a school right here in town?" Was it something you had thought about much before?

Price: No. It was just a chance to cut out that ride in the morning and the afternoon. I don't think I thought in those terms at the time. It was basically 35:00just, I guess, they had decided it was time to do it. The atmosphere in Blacksburg was probably more conducive than anywhere else because of your community makeup at the time. All the people coming in for Tech and all like that. So basically, here I am supposing again, but I think that's probably it

Kennelly: I wanted to ask you about that thing of Tech. Were you conscious much of Tech when you were growing up? Did you go to games? Did you go over and hang around the university, ride your bike around there?

Price: Yeah, we did. As kids we'd go play down in the duckpond and over at the 36:00dairy farm and all. I used to like to go over there and watch them.

Kennelly: Because they had animals there?

Price: The cows, watch them milk and all. Basically we were just being kids seeing what was over there.

Kennelly: Did you know anyone working in the dairy farm?

Price: No, I didn't.

Kennelly: It was just kind of checking out what was going on in that way that kids like to do?

Price: Right.

Kennelly: Someone asked, and you don't exactly recall how it was asked, but you were asked if you wanted to and you said you'd go. Your sister, was she a younger or older sister?

Price: She was my younger sister. Both my sisters were younger.

Kennelly: What about your friends? Were any of them going to go?

Price: There was a girl from down what we call the McDonald Country, down the 37:00mountain. She wanted to go. They turned her down. They would only let me and my sister go the first year.

Kennelly: Was her name Jacquelyn.

Price: Yeah. Jacquelyn. Jacquelyn Eaves now.

Kennelly: I wondered about her. Jacquelyn, I wrote Lewis, I don't know if that's right. Do you know why she was turned down?

Price: No, I don't.

Kennelly: Did you say Jacquelyn Eaves?

Price: Right. That's her married name.

Kennelly: Eaves, okay. Did your parents talk to you about going or what was 38:00going to happen? Did they prepare you?

Price: No. I don't remember them saying anything. I guess at the time I didn't have sense enough to be afraid. Plus, most the kids down on Roanoke street, we played together anyway. A couple of kids like I was saying would come up and walk with us to school and all.

Kennelly: Right from the start. Other white kids would be walking you to school, kids that you had probably had played ball with or played with for years.

Price: On Roanoke Street there yeah.

Kennelly: Can you take us back to that time when you first went in there? Talk a little bit about what's your experience was like, how you felt, and what you experienced? Did you have any problems when you went in or did it go smoothly?

Price: It went smoothly but there was time when we may hear... "the word," you know, "nigger" or something like that. I think, by and large, it was not used. 39:00Most of the kids were not that way. Then I think I was an introvert so that right there increased probably my separation. But my sister, she was in the eighth grade. So the only time I would see her would be at lunch time for thirty minutes. The rest of the day we were by ourselves. So that created a little tension. I didn't know what to expect, especially with all the stuff going on down on the East Coast. Campbell County or one of them at the time, they were 40:00having real problems down there. It was worse trying to get in school and all that. That was in the paper at the time. But none of that happened here. I guess that even in the school, the derogatory remarks and all was probably no more than what you would normally hear in a community this size. At the time you only had four thousand cadets, and so we only had twelve thousand or so people in Blacksburg. There was always maybe one or two. But most of the time we had a pretty good relationship like I was saying before. May have tension once in a while. I can only remember one time when maybe my brothers got in a fight, or 41:00something like that, because of it. But other than that it was a pretty good atmosphere.

Kennelly: You mean the town as a whole?

Price: Yes, the people.

Kennelly: You didn't feel, in the general town, that you were having racial slurs or people mistreating you?

Price: Yeah. Well, I was afraid the first couple of weeks and all not knowing what to expect. Just knowing there was going to be difference and the separation 42:00I think was the main fear, being isolated.

Kennelly: Being all by yourself in the school?

Price: Yes.

Kennelly: At lunchtime did you just sit with your sister?

Price: Right.

Kennelly: Did anyone sit with you two?

Price: Yes they did. Some kids did. Like the ones that would walk us to school and all like that.

Kennelly: They would sit with you?

Price: At the time my aunt worked there in the cafeteria too. There was I guess about four ladies that worked there from the black community so I knew them. I guess just being there was uncomfortable, not knowing what to expect. That's 43:00where all the tension came from I think, day in and day out. Listening to the TV and all, what's going on in Arkansas and other places, in Alabama and all. There was always something in the back of my mind I guess, just added stress. It basically didn't come from--.Maybe once or twice maybe somebody would say something. I think the stress just came from anticipation of what might or could happen.

Kennelly: Wasn't there some sort of cross burning incident around the time before you went in? Was that directed at you did you feel?

Price: No.

Kennelly: There was some kind of incident. I read about it in the paper, in the old papers. That wasn't something that particularly you remember?

Price: No.

Kennelly: As being--.Were there any black teachers in the school at that point?

Price: No.

Kennelly: That might have helped. Did the principle make you feel welcomed?

Price: Yes he did. Mr. Gray. All of them were in acceptance of it. I don't remember too many bad experiences with the teachers.

Kennelly: Were there some bad experiences?

Price: Well at the time I thought it was, with one teacher.

Kennelly: What kind of thing happened?

Price: It's--Okay. She just had things that she called her students when they weren't doing their best, or she thought they weren't doing their best. The thing of it was she just wasn't sensitive to what she was saying at the time.

Kennelly: What would she say?

Price: Something about my black dog. Referring to me as her black dog.

Kennelly: Oh my gosh. That wasn't very sensitive.

Price: No.

Kennelly: That must have been painful.

Price: Yeah, it was. I had heard her talk to some of the other students too and several times. It made me uneasy. I was the only black there.

Kennelly: She might say something sort of insulting to somebody else?

Price: Right. That was her way of, I guess, trying to inspire you or get you to 47:00come up to where she think you ought to be. I think at the time it was just an insensitivity, that's all. I don't think she meant it in a harmful way.

Kennelly: Did you feel comfortable speaking in class?

Price: That was rough. Like I said I was an introvert. When I was spoken to I answered but I pretty much just sat back I think, as I remember now. Just tried to do my work. At the time too I was surprised to find that I was in the 48:00advanced class where they had students that were attending Tech I think at that time. Some of the seniors and juniors were, I think they called them the accelerated students, so that was the category I was put in. I didn't even know that such programs existed. Maybe it was my lack of enthusiasm for school. Maybe they had offered them over at Christiansburg Institute, but I don't remember.

Kennelly: Did you have the opportunity to take classes at Tech then?

Price: No, I think it was the very--the honor students and all. I wasn't an honor student at the time.

Kennelly: But they put you in the classes with those students?

Price: Yes.

Kennelly: So they must have thought your education to that point was on some kind of level, do you think? Is that why they put you in that group?

Price: It could have been. I don't know. I ended up spending my last summer taking--I had to retake English. So I took that, and then I joined the service. 50:00I didn't stick around to graduate.

Kennelly: So you finished your work but you didn't go to graduation? Did you graduate actually from Blacksburg High School?

Price: Yes, I graduated. I graduated in summer school.

Kennelly: I see. Why did you think you had to retake the English? Do you think that had anything to do with your education before or do you think it was anything about being expected to fit into a sort of way of doing things that was different from what you were used to doing?

Price: I think it was probably due to my preparation. I didn't have any special preparation to go to school. I think on my part I hadn't taken school seriously 51:00up until that point. It just caught up with me. It's what I'd like to think anyway. Not that I was picked out not to graduate, but that it was because of my not pushing myself as hard as I could've.

Kennelly: You don't think there would be a possibility that they picked you out not to graduate do you?

Price: Well at the time and all. I just knew I wasn't going to take another year of stress. Because it was stress, the pressure of being there and a pressure of 52:00not knowing exactly what's happening, and like I said all the other things that were going on in America at the time. I think it was probably my lack of studying and my lack of study techniques. Plus at the time like I said I was working two jobs. I worked at the theatre, at the Lyric, and I worked at Gwin Department Store at the time. I was a janitor there too.

Kennelly: How often did you work at the Lyric then?

Price: Every night.

Kennelly: And you worked at the department store how often? How many hours were you putting in over there?

Price: About three I think, three a day.

Kennelly: So you were doing two jobs a day plus going to school? You didn't have too much time to study. Were you trying to save money or were you helping the family out?

Price: No, that was just part of--like I said, my Mom and Dad always worked and that was part of what they instilled in us. To work. So I, at the time, I didn't think then much about it.

Kennelly: So when you got old enough to get a job, you found a job. It was something that you just kind of expected then to do?

Price: Yeah. Well I knew there were things I wanted. From a large family knowing 54:00the only way I'd probably get them is to get out and do it on my own.

Kennelly: How young were you when you started working at the Lyric?

Price: Probably about fifteen.

Kennelly: Was that about the same on the other job too. The janitor's job at the department store?

Price: Yeah, probably so. My brother, my third oldest brother, had the job at the Lyric Theatre, so when he left I just took it over from him.

Kennelly: You kind of kept it in the family. What was your other brother's name?

Price: Clarence. He's out in Colorado Springs now. That's his home.

Kennelly: Did you join the band in school - at Blacksburg High?

Price: No, I didn't.

Kennelly: Did anyone suggest that you might want to do that?

Price: No, they didn't.

Kennelly: Did you participate in any of the sports activities?

Price: No, I didn't.

Kennelly: Or social?

Price: No, I didn't.

Kennelly: After being in a band, a good band, having all that, I imagine you would feel much more isolated in that situation.

Price: Yes.

Kennelly: That was a big change from what your experiences had been before.

Price: Right. The work and all--I couldn't have been in the band anyway.

Kennelly: Oh, because of your jobs. That makes a difference too.

Price: Plus... I don't know why I didn't pursue that. One reason I didn't think 56:00I was that good in the band anyway. That wasn't going to be my life's pursuit, playing the trombone.

Kennelly: It was just kind of a fun thing to play. When you walked into school were you harassed or anything by any adults or people outside?

Price: No. I don't remember seeing anybody other than just students.

Kennelly: The first day of school you just walked to school. It all went pretty smoothly then.

Price: Yeah.

Kennelly: Did you feel like you were being expected to pretty much adjust to a white oriented, white based curriculum in school when you went in pretty much.

Price: I think it was probably the same that we had at Christiansburg Institute. The same books and all. The main problem was like I said, I hadn't put that much 58:00energy into my school efforts before. When I applied for school, I didn't think they were going to accept me really. I did not. It was a pleasant surprise. I think what added to the education was mostly the stress, not knowing what to expect. Constantly walking on eggshells I guess you can say. Not trying to always do what was expected... and not to create any problems. So that took up a 59:00lot of my time too.

Kennelly: And a lot of energy. Did you feel that there was any effort made to bring out your own strengths and help you with weak parts? Your strengths and weaknesses. Was there any effort particularly made to take those into account that made the adjustment easier for you?

Price: No, I don't think so. No. I thought in a way that it was probably made 60:00harder being in class with like the accelerated group. College prep classes I think they call them. That sort of... I guess I sort of had the idea that they were throwing me into something that I wasn't prepared for. I hadn't thought of myself as being accelerated or anything like that, so to be thrown into that category, I thought was scary in itself too.

Kennelly: Do you think that was based on your test scores or something that they were doing that?

Price: I don't know.

Kennelly: It's kind of hard to figure. Did people try to talk to you about going 61:00to college or counsel you about college? Was there anything like that? You know, talk to you about what you might want to do in your future? Was there any type of counseling or anything like that?

Price: I don't remember. At the time I hadn't planned on going to college.

Kennelly: So it might have been easier if you had been put in a the more average level rather than the accelerated?

Price: Yes. It would have been easier, but I'm sort of glad they didn't.

Kennelly: Why is that?

Price: I think the two years I spent there helped me enormously the rest of my life and career.

Kennelly: Really? In what way would you say?

Price: In dealing with stress and with challenges and all. It's made a lot of other things a lot easier for me.

Kennelly: Could you explain a little bit more?

Price: Yes. Well, being in the military you have situations of extreme stress also. I think being at Blacksburg the high school there helped me to know how to deal with stress in that area. Academic-wise I know that it finally helped me 63:00eighteen years later when I was forced--not forced-- but when I started college. Realizing--

End Tape 1

Begin Tape 2, Side 1

Kennelly: You were saying about how it helped you to deal with stress and now that you're going back to school, you're in college now, is that right?

Price: No, not now. I'm working on my internship for LDC, professional counselor. I had to take some courses at Tech to get me up to the state requirements here. So that's what I was doing over at Tech. After I lost my 64:00sight I went to college, started college after that. Like I was saying about Blacksburg High, how it helped me there, I knew if I'd made it through that, there wasn't too much out there that I couldn't make it through. So it helped me in that aspect.

Kennelly: Getting confidence in your own strength, I suppose?

Price: Yes. To know that I could take the stress no matter how hard it was, I could do it. It's helped me in that respect. And in the respect of my blindness 65:00also I think. Just remembering back how I felt at times then and how the challenge of coping with blindness now. So that's helped me, I think, to adapt to this.

Kennelly: As a student back in Blacksburg High School, how did you cope with the stress? What did you do to handle it? Could you say more about that?

Price: I guess it was the working, because I could work my stress out through that.

Kennelly: Through your jobs?

Price: Through my jobs. I deal with stress by staying busy. My wife can tell you 66:00that. Sometimes I keep her so busy she doesn't know whether she's coming or going. Doing two or three things at a time. Like trying to pastor and go to school, active in all the church activities and all too. I'm a person that likes to stay busy.

Kennelly: What church are you a pastor in?

Price: Livingway Christian Center here in Blacksburg.

Kennelly: Livingway Christian Center? Where is that located?

Price: It's Plaza One off of Country Club Drive.

Kennelly: How long have you been doing that?

Price: Just a little over a year. My wife and I started it. We co-pastor. We started it September of [19]94.

Kennelly: How did that come about?

Price: Well, I was hoping to give back, to give the opportunity for the young people and all to come in and to be saved. To offer them an alternative to drugs and alcohol and all like that. That's our primary goal, to be a help in the 68:00community. To be a resource. That's why I'm in the process of doing my license in professional counseling. To be able to help out in that area more.

Kennelly: Particularly with young people?

Price: Uh huh.

Kennelly: Do you have a very large congregation?

Price: No, it's not too large at all. We're small.

Kennelly: Plus it's a new congregation too.

Price: Yes. We're allowing God to send those in. We figure if it's going to be a slow growth that'll be best that way we'll have a good foundation to work with.

Kennelly: But you have a church building?

Price: No, we're worshipping in a shopping center. It's over by the Y and some 69:00more offices and all like that are in it. A music store and all like that.

Kennelly: Where did you say it was again?

Price: Plaza One off of Country Club Drive.

Kennelly: Oh, I haven't even been over there. When did you become a minister? Was it just in [19]94 then?

Price: No, I became a minister about [19]80. But I've been active in church--well I was active in church here before I left. I was a Sunday School teacher and all like that too. In the church before I left. I sang in the choir and all. Church has always been a very important part of my life. Except for 70:00the, I guess, in the military even. But I guess you have to sow your wild oats and so I did that too. In Germany. Then in 1970 my wife and I went back to Germany. We were saved over there. We became very active in church activities there, singing in a Gospel group and holding Bible studies in the housing area.

Kennelly: On the military base?

Price: Yes.

Kennelly: Was that an integrated church over there that you belonged to?

Price: Yes, it was.

Kennelly: That was a real strong point of your religious life, that experience over there?

Price: Correct. Basically it blessed us, to be where we are today really I think. At the time, like I said, I was a young man into boozing and drinking and just having a good time. He saw fit to save us. Since then I was preaching there 72:00in San Antonio. The church there that we ran. Over there in Germany it started. I started teaching Bible study and all with a renewed vigor. We got back to the States, and we were down in Texas when we got really involved in church work down there. We moved up to the Air Force Academy. We got involved. Everywhere we've been we've been really involved in church work. Up there in Colorado Springs is where I started preaching. God called me to preach. Then we went back from Colorado Springs back down to San Antonio. That's where I lost my sight.

Kennelly: Was it an accident?

Price: It was a medication reaction. It was ironic in that I was in the pharmacy field for over eighteen years and two months when I got sick. I'd given out tons of it over my career of the medication that caused it. And myself-- You're the last one to think that anything like that can happen to you. But they say it happens to one in 50,000. It wasn't supposed to-- But they said, "It doesn't happen a lot to blacks at all." It shouldn't have happened to me is what they 74:00said, but it did. It changed my whole life a little, but that goes back to learning to deal with stress again. Being blind, it's almost a continuous stress thing too. Your level is constantly up in that you don't know what to expect or constantly trying to figure out what's in front of you, what's going on. You don't have the facial expressions of people to judge how they're receiving you and all like that.

Kennelly: I didn't realize that, really I didn't. Do you have some sight?

Price: I'm total.

Kennelly: I didn't really realize that until now.

Price: They had to remove both my eyes. What happened, the medication burnt me 75:00from the inside out. Stephens Johnson Syndrome. I took the medication for only twenty-one days, but the twenty-first day I went in to the hospital where I worked, and I went on sick call. They said well you got an earache, and so they gave me some medicine and sent me home. So that night about five my wife came home from work. I told her, I said, "Well, I'm still not feeling good. I think I'm sick." So she took my fever, and it was 105 or something like that. So she took me out to the emergency room, and that's the last thing I remember for about four to six weeks. They said that night I just broke out from the crown of 76:00the head to the soles of my feet in boils and blisters. So I was about like a third degree burn patient. So they had to treat me like a burn patient. It destroyed the tear ducts, and my eyelids became like sandpaper. All my mucous membranes were burned up too. Every time I blinked my eye, it would destroy, scratch the cornea. So they tried three cornea transplants in each eye, none of them took. I had over thirty operations I guess. They put me on hyperbaric medicine where you try to force blood vessels across the eyes, across the 77:00tissues and all. That's with about twenty-five times of doing that. Then they had hydraulic fluid or silicon. They had rigged a little bottle that I had to wear so it would drip down into my eye. They stitched it on there, and that didn't work neither. The real good thing about that was when the first day I went into the hospital, and the next morning my wife came in. She said, "God's given me a scripture for you." I said, "Yeah, he gave me one too." It turned out to be the very same scripture. Ever since that day I don't worry about it. I 78:00know it's part of God's plan for my life.

Kennelly: Which scripture was it?

Price: Romans 8:28--"All things work together to the good of those who love the Lord and to those that are called according to this purpose." I knew I'd been called, and I knew I loved Him, so from that day on. I'm not going to say there hasn't been times when I say, "Why me Lord?" But ever since then God has seen fit to let me handle, give me the strength to handle most everything. That in itself was a blessing for me to get through college and through seminary. My degree is in Christian Counseling.

Kennelly: Where did you go to seminary?

Price: Denver Seminary. I went to Colorado Christian. I started school there in 79:00San Antonio. I can't even think of it now it slipped.

Kennelly: Maybe it will come back to you?

Price: Yes, eventually. But then we went up and finished because I wanted to go into counseling, and at the time they were saying that Denver Seminary had the best Christian Counseling program in the nation. So we went up and finished our last year in Colorado Christian and then just went across town to the Denver Seminary. Since I lost my sight, we've been to Denver and to Colorado Springs 80:00and then we came home. I lost my second oldest brother, and we came home for his funeral. So that's when I felt the Lord was leading me to come back home. That's basically how we got back here.

Kennelly: When did you come back here then?

Price: In [19]92. October of [19]92.

Kennelly: So you have a dog. Is that a seeing eye dog?

Price: Yes it is. It's a leader dog. That's my second one. My first I one I had to put to sleep last January. It's been a year. I'd had him since [19]91. They 81:00treated him over at the Veterinary Center over at Tech.

Kennelly: So then you came back and took courses because with your Ministry counseling just to meet whatever the local requirements are. Is that what you're studying right now?

Price: Yes. To keep current.

Kennelly: And then your planning to work with young people?

Price: Well, I plan to work with people.

Kennelly: People, it doesn't matter what ages?

Price: Yes. Just with people. Right now I'm on the Board of Directors with the free clinic over in Christiansburg. The New River Valley Free Clinic. So hopefully I will be able to start a counseling service up for them this year. You know to use it that way. I just want to be able to help out where I can, 82:00wherever I can.

Kennelly: What is your wife's name?

Price: Carrie.

Kennelly: Do you have any children?

Price: We have two. And two grandchildren. She's in Colorado Springs. Both of them, my son and my daughter are in Colorado Springs. We just were there for Christmas. She's a Special Ed teacher there in Colorado Springs. She just finished her Masters and walked right into the job so God blessed her. One of 83:00the high schools there.

Kennelly: Going back to that time in Blacksburg, do you think the experience of your sister was different from your experience, your sister Anna?

Price: Yeah, I do.

Kennelly: Could you say a little bit about how it was different?

Price: Mine and hers?

Kennelly: Yeah. What hers was like?

Price: OK. From talking to her I think she was probably a little more harassed by the students than I was. In talking to her now. Plus she spent the whole five years there.

Kennelly: Was she in the eighth grade?

Price: She was in the eighth, and I was in the eleventh. After that first year 84:00she had other kids to come up that next year.

Kennelly: I was wondering about that, if more kids came up next year.

Price: That helped her out an awful lot to be able to see other faces and to talk to other people. I think that's probably basically the only difference and all. I think she got the benefit of, more so than I did, with the counselors and all like that.

Kennelly: But she felt a bit more harassed too. Is that what you said?

Price: I think from talking with her, I think she felt more harassed yes.

Kennelly: People would say things or that it was more subtle kinds of things?

Price: Both. From talking with her I think it was both.

Kennelly: Going through this experience, did it affect how you raised your own children? I guess you've had a lot of things that you've gone through actually, so it's probably hard to isolate ones that make a difference.

Price: No, I don't think so. I think, well, in treating people as people. Prejudice, I think, hurts the person that's prejudice more than it does anyone else. So we tried to raise them to respect themselves and to accept, respect the other person just as much as they can and to give them a chance. To learn from every experience.

Kennelly: Are you conscious of prejudice in Blacksburg these days? Do you think there is much?

Price: In certain ways, from what I can hear talking with people, it seems to be reverting back to those days. I don't know if it's due to not realizing the... achievements that were made and the necessity to continue to go forward instead of looking back. Or still reverting back to those days really. What I'm trying 88:00to say is that I don't believe that in a lot of cases that a lot of the opportunities are being taken advantage of. It's worse. The kids are wasting their lives with drugs and alcohol and stuff. I think that's the thing that disgruntles me most about it. I know that it's not in all of them, but it just seems to be a few or some that don't realize the struggle it took to get to this point. They seem to be just handing it over. I don't know if I'm making sense. 89:00But to me they just seem to be giving everything that we have accomplished--to give it back. They seem to be just giving it back. Does that make sense?

Kennelly: Well, in the sense, you mean by getting involved with drugs and things?

Price: Right. By not taking full advantage of their opportunities. That worries me most of all.

Kennelly: What about the attitudes of white people?

Price: From what I hear on the news and with talking to some, I think that 90:00attitude has reared it's ugly head again...of prejudice. I don't know if it ever left. But it seems to be coming more prevalent today. I think before I guess it was more subtle. But now it seem to be coming more out in the open with the hate groups and all--he skinheads, and the Klan, and --

Kennelly: Do you feel like in our little community of Blacksburg, Christiansburg, around here, do you find it much in evidence?

Price: Well I live a sheltered life here. I can't speak to that per se. Most of 91:00my dealings are with the church community and their leaders. The pastors and all that are in that. It's there from listening to what people in the congregation and all are saying. That's where I get the idea that it's reverting back to the [19]60's, pre-[19]60's. I think too that every time we have an economic downtrend that it brings out more so; it becomes more prevalent.

Kennelly: I imagine that makes a lot of sense. Is your congregation now is it mixed?

Price: Yes it is.

Kennelly: Are there people of all ages? Are there more young people in it, as far as age group?

Price: We have about an equal amount now. Maybe a few more youngsters. Hopefully we'll be getting in a bunch of teenagers. We have two that I know that I'll be baptizing this week, Sunday. Possibly three.

Kennelly: That must feel good.

Price: It does.

Kennelly: What your mission is fulfilling.

Price: Well, more so because they're all three of my nieces.

Kennelly: That's very special. You've pretty much answered my questions. Are there other things that you'd like to say, other comments you want to make, or things maybe I didn't think to bring out that you think are important to speak about as far as the whole question of racial climate in Blacksburg now, or what can be done improve it.

Price: I think back there then, I remember that the kids so much didn't have a 94:00problem with it. They came and walked us to school and all. I think the main thing that we have to do is learn to take individuals as individuals and accept them for their qualities and their attributes and not for the color of their skin. Encourage every young person and even every old person to reach their maximum potential. Try to contribute something back to the communities they've come out of.

End Tape 2, Side 1

Begin Side 2

Kennelly: When I've read a little bit about this whole period in books, one 95:00thing that's come up there was a textbook that was used in History. I just wondered if by any chance if it was anything that you had noticed. It was The Cavalier. I just wondered if you had any recollection of the way history was taught when you were in school, when you were in high school. If you had any thoughts about how they would approach the teaching of history or of a book they used to teach it for the curriculum? Cavalier Commonwealth was the eleventh grade book they said was a state-prescribed book. I just wondered either if you didn't have any feelings about that, just their general approach to teaching history?

Price: I think that the accomplishments of a lot of the blacks were not in there. It was as if we didn't contribute to America. Or if it was it was a paragraph, a couple of lines or something like that. So many things you were already accustomed to. Looking back now that I can see there wasn't that much in those textbooks concerning blacks and their accomplishments. So it was the white 97:00history books.

Kennelly: Anything else you want to add?

Price: No, I'm just glad to see that they're becoming more inclusive.

Kennelly: In the books?

Price: In the books, yeah.

Kennelly: Do you have any feelings about this Million Man March?

Price: It was good that a million men could get together, a million black men. Hopefully it will serve as a basis for them coming back home and getting 98:00involved in their communities. Mostly in their homes becoming more and more aware of what they're turning over to the streets and all. I mean their children and all they need to take more interest in.

Kennelly: That's going back to what you were saying a little bit ago about what's happening with young people. And it's involved with what your work is now, not taking advantage or not--what could be there.

Price: That's true. I think that the main thing that we need to remember--that 99:00separation of the races is not going to work. It never has, and it never will. Not in America anyway. So to teach hate and bitterness and all those things that the different hate groups stand for, it's something that the decent people, I'll say, will have to stand up against. In other words, everybody's going to have to get involved in making a better world, better community. Because a lot of times 100:00we know it's wrong, and we don't say anything. So that makes us part of the wrongs. I thank the Lord for the two years I had at Blacksburg High School. And I think I've learned a lot. Looking back at it, hindsight is always better.

Kennelly: Than when you're going through it.

Prince: I wish I had availed myself more to the teachers that were there and that were available. They were excellent, but being an introvert I just did what I had to do to get out.

Kennelly: To be thrown into without--. You might have been a good candidate for some counseling at that point just to learn how to deal with it like you had to find your own way through it. Not an easy thing to do.

Price: It wasn't. But yeah, thinking about what you said, that would have been a big help. But then I don't know if I would have availed myself of it at the time-- But I wouldn't trade it.

Kennelly: Do you have any pictures from that time, of yourself?

Price: I don't know where it is. I have one of my junior year. I don't even know where my yearbook is anymore.

Kennelly: If you could find it, we'd love to able to make a copy of that to have with the interview. There's no photographs, it's part of Blacksburg's history really. We'd like to have that over at the archives. If could lend us the yearbook, are you in the school yearbook? Did you get your picture taken in the school yearbook?

Price: I think so.

Kennelly: Well we could find a copy of the school yearbook if it's in there. We could make copies and return the original to you is what I'm trying to say.

Price: Okay. Well, I don't know where my yearbook is.

Kennelly: Maybe I can find it if it's in the yearbook. I thought maybe you might 103:00have a family picture.

Kennelly: --you mean the community here.

Price: Blacksburg as a whole, yes.

Kennelly: Because of the type of town it was it was different from what was happening even east of Virginia.

Price: Right. I think with the interaction of the town and the campus and all like that. That flavor probably spilled over. That did create a lot of stress for me, the Alabama incident, the Arkansas, and all that. I was expecting something like that, but it didn't happen.

Kennelly: The family that I saw, they had actually three generations--they had 104:00their children, the people who'd done it themselves, you know, the kids who'd gone as kids, integrated. Then their mother. They were threatened; their family was threatened. They were sharecroppers, and they were threatened to be kicked off the farm. Their livelihood was threatened. People were driving out at night and shooting guns. It was really very terrifying. But I suppose you were hearing those stories at the time.

Price: Or seeing them on television.

Kennelly: That would add to the general stress. I'm not from Virginia, so I'm not actually aware of all of what was happening here as far as how much problems kids were having in the east and the eastern part of the state when they were integrating the schools.

Price: A lot more than what we had here for sure. I think considering the other 105:00places, ours was easy. It came off without a hitch. They would have to say it was a success I would have to imagine. They had put a lot of planning into it I think. I'm glad those are the good old days though. That's what I'm worried about. Reverting back to that. Hopefully we don't have to.

Kennelly: Is there something else you wanted to add?

Price: No, I've said enough I think. I wandered.

Kennelly: I don't think so. It's all part of your life.

Price: Oh, what I was going to say. My sister probably has an entirely different view.

Kennelly: Yeah, I'd like to talk to her if she's willing.

Price: I don't know. I don't think so.

Kennelly: You don't think she would be?

Price: No, I don't think she would, but I'll ask her. I'll have her to call you if she is.

Kennelly: OK. Because she just has a different personality you think her experience was different.

Price: Yes. It's just like growing up in a family. No child's perception of the 107:00family is going to be the same at any time. Her perception of all the students around her were different so I don't know how she perceived it.

Kennelly: Then did the next child down in you family after your sister, the next youngest child did go ahead and go then?

Price: Yes. My brother under me was the last one to go to Christiansburg Institute. My two sisters and brother went there. And my youngest brother, he did great there. He was even Rex, for homecoming and all.

Kennelly: He was what for homecoming?

Price: You know, when they have a carnival, the king and all--he was the king.

Kennelly: He was the king for homecoming?

Price: I think he was.

Kennelly: How much younger is he than you?

Price: He's about ten years.

Kennelly: So by that time, wow.

Price: He was a basketball player and all. He was great. He was good at that. He made All-State, I think.

Kennelly: He was really a participant in a way that wasn't possible for you.

Price: Well, now he teaches there.

Kennelly: Oh, he does.

Price: He's one of the coaches.

Kennelly: Oh, Mr. Price, yeah.

Price: Tommy. Yes. He's up at the Middle School.

Kennelly: I've heard of his name, sure.

Price: So it was entirely different for him and I.

Kennelly: You were the groundbreaker.

Price: It was totally more inclusive then.

Kennelly: More inclusive by the time he got in?

Price: Yeah.

Kennelly: That's a significant span of time too. I really appreciate your talking with me about this. Thank you very much.

Price: Well, you're welcome.

End of Interview