Oral History with Janelle Harden, October 31, 2000 (Ms2002-001)

Cook: My name is Susan Cook I'm interviewing Janelle Harden. It's October 31, at 12:00. Janelle, could you say your full name and your date of birth.

Harden: Janelle Torreè Harden, 26 June 1978.

Cook: Could you spell your middle name?

Harden: T-o-r-r-e-è, accent on the last e.

Cook: Okay first I'd like to talk to you about where you're originally from.

Harden: San Antonio, Texas. I'm a long way from home. I was born into the Air Force. Both my parents are in the Air Force. My dad thirty years and my mom twenty. So, we were in San Antonio when I happened to be born then we moved three months after I was born and we've been moving ever since. In ninety-four, my father moved to Fairfax, Virginia and my mom and I stayed in Texas a little bit longer. Then we came up. I started high school in Texas. I graduated high school in Virginia and then came to college.

Cook: Wow, so you're use to all different kinds of situations.

Harden: Oh yes, all different.

Cook: So right before you came to Virginia Tech, you lived in Texas ... or Fairfax?

Harden: Well, it's weird. I had a very weird college experience. I originally started college in Colorado Springs at the Air force Academy and then I came to Tech. So right before, I was in Colorado and then I came here.

Cook: How many years were you there?

Harden: In Colorado?

Cook: Yes.

Harden: It wasn't very long; it was only about three months.

Cook: Oh, okay.

Harden: I started school and I got really sick. Like my roommates had to wake me up to make sure I was still breathing, I was real sick, and I came home.

Cook: What did you have?

Harden: The doctors still don't know. They couldn't figure out why I would just stop breathing.

Cook: And they never found out?

Harden: No. I had various asthma tests, all these physical tests and I passed all of them.

Cook: You're okay since then?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: What started you on your path to Virginia Tech?

Harden: My mother! [Laughter] My mother made me apply to Tech. I didn't want to come here because I wanted to go back to Texas or Georgia Tech or somewhere different. But I'm glad she made me apply because Tech holds your acceptance for a year. So when I got home I was able to call and say, "Can I get a room, any room?" So they had a room for me and I was able to come on down and start school.

Cook: But, you had to recover first? When did you start at Tech?

Harden: I started in August and recovered.

Cook: I wanted to ask you for my purposes do you want to be called black or African American?

Harden: African American.

Cook: Could you tell me something about your family's history that you can 3:00remember? For instance just go back a little like to your grandparents.

Harden: Oh, grandparents?

Cook: Yes. That's a start.

Harden: Well that's interesting! I only know my grandmothers. I don't know my grandfathers. My paternal grandfather died when my father was sixteen so I didn't know him.

Cook: How did he die?

Harden: From what I was told, he was a truck driver and he died, I want to say, in an accident. I'm not quite sure of the details of the accident but he died. My maternal grandfather--I don't know anything about him. Supposedly, he lived in Baltimore and his sister called us and told us--well, she thinks that we're her family. I'm not quite if sure we are. We still haven't figured out this relationship. But, we went to this man's funeral who was supposed to be our grandfather. I don't think he was because no one there looked like us! [Laughter]

Cook: Okay that's bizarre!

Harden: It is. None of them looked like us and they all had accents and we don't. So I don't know--

Cook: You're not really sure if that aunt is your aunt?

Harden: Exactly. But that's interesting. My grandmother on my dad's side, so my 4:00paternal grandmother, lives in Florida. She's in Miami. My maternal grandmother died Good Friday, 1986 and she lived in Washington, D.C. I have a sister who is in Florida, Miami.

Cook: What does she do?

Harden: She works for a church. She does financial consulting for various churches in the Miami area.

Cook: Do you have brothers?

Harden: No, it's just the two of us.

Cook: Did your sister go to college, too?

Harden: No.

Cook: Is she younger or older than you?

Harden: Older. We're twelve years apart.

Cook: Oh that's a lot. You started to tell me about your mom and dad. They're both in the Air Force?

Harden: They're both retired now.

Cook: What did they do in the Air Force?

Harden: My dad was nuclear weapons [laughter] and my mom is a nurse.

Cook: An R.N.[Registered Nurse]?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: I don't know about any of the levels--

Harden: They're both Majors and actually my dad went through the enlisted ranks and then became an officer, which is unusual.

Cook: Did they go to college?

Harden: My dad did while he was in the service. My mom did right before she went into the service.

Cook: What schools did they go to?

Harden: My dad went to Whalen Baptist which is in Texas and my mom went to UT--well, she went to two schools. The first one was University of Maryland, College Park. That's where she did her undergrad. Then she did her graduate study at UT, Austin.

Cook: Wow! What were her degrees in?

Harden: Her undergraduate degree was in nursing from what I'm aware of. Then she 6:00got her doctorate at UT, Austin and her master's at UT, Austin. They are both in Gerontology.

Cook: I heard UT, Austin is a wonderful school, really good school. And your father, what was his degree in?

Harden: His degree is in Business, Business Administration.

Cook: That must have been an interesting life growing up with your parents in the Air Force.

Harden: Yes. A lot of times with aunts, friends, lot of time with made up aunts!

Cook: Extended family?

Harden: Extended family. Yes.

Cook: So you grew up--since you grew up in a military environment, it was an integrated community?

Harden: Yes we lived all sorts of places.

Cook: Did you ever live out of the country?

Harden: Yes. We lived in Canada. I guess that's as far out of the country as I've been. My dad was in Turkey for a while. But, my mom and I--

Cook: That was before you were born?

Harden: No that was after I was born. My mom and I stayed where we were at the 7:00time and he left then came back and got us. We went to Canada. We've lived all over Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, Washington, D.C., Virginia, Portland, Oregon--I think I'm missing someplace.

Cook: When you were born and your mom--she was in the military at that time--do they let mother's take a certain amount of time off?

Harden: I'm not sure how much time off she took, but she was able to take some time off and then I started going to a sitter.

Cook: This is kind of strange question, but I think it's very revealing. Who was your childhood hero?

Harden: [laughter]

Cook: It could be a person that you knew or you know I don't know-- sports figure or a Hollywood film star or whatever.

Harden: Childhood hero? Gosh - because at different times I had different ones.

Cook: Well, just name a few then.

Harden: The earliest one I can remember was Mr. Snuffleupagus. That's the 8:00earliest one I can remember. And then--it was never Barbie or anything like that because I use to pop her head off!

[Laughter]

Cook: My sons swing her by the hair and then fling her!

Harden: Exactly! Then it became athletes like Florence Griffith Joyner, Jackie Joyner-Kersey. My mom and my dad have always been people I look up to. My cousin, Yolanda, was a big one especially coming through early teenage years, preteen years. She was a big one.

Cook: Why was she a hero too?

Harden: Because my sister and I were so far apart, twelve years, my cousin, Yolanda, and I are only five years apart so we were able to do more things together. She taught me a lot--how to wear clothes and do my hair, if I wore makeup, how to put it on, how to talk to boys.

Cook: Are you still close to her?

Harden: Yes, definitely.

Cook: That's a good answer--it's a hard one. What did you want to be when you grew up?

Harden: At first I wanted to be a lawyer and then I wanted to be a doctor, and then I wanted to be an archaeologist. I was always changing. Finally, I got to engineering.

Cook: Is your family active in politics?

Harden: I would say my dad more than my mom. My dad is more outspoken then my mom is. So, you are going hear him talk about it more than my mom. My mom is the one who will stay up 'til one o'clock in the morning to watch all of the debates. But, my dad is the one who will actually get in a political debate with you.

Cook: You really answered this question, but I'll ask it one more time. Did you 10:00have any relatives that were major influences on you besides Yolanda?

Harden: Yolanda--my mom has been a real big one because of growing up in D.C. and growing up in a single parent home with her and her sisters. I saw the sacrifice her sisters made so my mom could go to school. So from birth, she's always instilled in me, you have to have pride and education in the things that you do because not everyone gets that chance. So, she's always been big.

Cook: She was getting her Ph.D. when you were--?

Harden: When I was in the fourth and fifth grade. So when she would go to class, I would go to class with her. We would drive from San Antonio to Austin. We got into this little ritual. She'd pick me up, we'd go to McDonald's, get on the freeway and I'd sit in class and she'd sit in class. Then we'd do our homework together. Then we'd drive back that night!

Cook: That's wonderful. We need more women to do that type of stuff.

Harden: She took a lot of time out, a lot of time out. The thing that I really liked about her is--whenever I hear women say, it's not an excuse or anything like that, I guess just different styles, when I hear them talk about--well I 11:00had to give my child to my mom to take care of while I went to school or so on and so forth--that might have been great for you, it was probably what you needed to do, but I think my mom is extraordinary because she took me with her.

Cook: I do too!

Harden: She could have left me with a sitter or not gone to school at all. But she saw opportunities not only for her but what it would mean for me. She took me with her everywhere.

Cook: Which had to influence you.

Harden: Oh, yeah!

Cook: Also, we need professors that will allow that too. I've seen professors that will.

Harden: Like when she went to Portland to do her research, I went with her. I got to visit the elderly people. I didn't do too much with them but we did exercises together and stuff.

Cook: You have a good woman for a mom.

Harden: I like her!

Cook: That's special. I think it's going to be very hard for you to explain this 12:00question--where did you go to high school? I guess pick one that was majorly influential.

Harden: I'll say my first high school, John Marshall in San Antonio. That was a big influence on me just because it was a mixed school, a very mixed school.

Cook: You mean all nationalities?

Harden: All nationalities. We had things like--we weren't divided by color in this school. You were divided by the things you did. Like the track team hung out together; the football team, the basketball team. What we called the "kickers", which were all the cowboys and cowgirls.

Cook: I've never heard of that! [Laughter]

Harden: Yes that's how we were divided. In my high school, we had the Klan.

Cook: That was vocal?

Harden: They would write things on the wall and do things they weren't supposed to do. But luckily we were such a close-knit family, in terms of the African American community that the males in the groups looked out for the females. They would miss class to escort us to different places especially because they knew that the Klan was in the school. They knew that we would possibly get in 13:00trouble. But they would hope that we wouldn't; everyone hoped that we wouldn't but if we ever did, they would escort us to class or to our lockers.

Cook: But, still you have that fear?

Harden: Well, I don't know. My dad always taught me, don't react to the people who think with the wisdom of fools. So, I can't say I've ever been afraid of anyone. They didn't do--they never did anything harmful to a certain person. They would do things like rip up lockers or spray things on the wall, that sort of thing. I never saw or heard of anything they did where they attacked someone.

Cook: Did they also pick on--as far as what they sprayed--others, for instance, Asians or Mexicans?

Harden: Exactly, exactly and my first high school--well it was never found out 14:00who it was but then you could kind of narrow things down. I remember this one girl, while we were at lunch, she was raped in our auditorium. Like I said, they couldn't pinpoint who it was but you could narrow it down to certain people in the school.

Cook: Was she black?

Harden: No, she was actually mentally disabled.

Cook: So, they couldn't tell if it was KKK?

Harden: Right!

Cook: Wasn't Texas the state where the black man was dragged--?

Harden: Right, Jasper, Texas.

Cook: That's so horrible!

Harden: So It's there, I guess because of that, it was a big influence on me in terms of who I was going to be--who I was going to establish myself to be. I was going to get an education regardless and go on to bigger and better things. If you all want to do crazy things, that's fine, it's just I have a goal in mind and I'm on this track and I'm going to stick to it. Luckily, I had teachers and guidance counselors and so forth who since I was a freshman called me into their 15:00office and gave me little things to do. Like your assignment for the week is to look up one college in the career center and find out all you can about that school. That's how I got acclimated to looking up things about colleges and they had me writing a resume. I hadn't done anything but I'd write resumes about organizations I was in. They really got me into; this is the track you're going to be in. This is what you need to do to survive and to accomplish your goal.

Cook: That's wonderful. That's unusual, I think. Were they black or white?

Harden: No. All different races, just people who cared.

Cook: Male and female?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: My next question is what was your school life like but you've just explained that. Were there a lot of military children there?

Harden: There were. There were because San Antonio is a big military area with, I believe it was five bases. I believe they've closed one so now it's four but at the time there were five military bases in that area.

Cook: Did you play sports or what extracurricular activities?

Harden: Track. I ran track for a while, played soccer, played volleyball. I was a youth leader at my church, so I did that, choir, clubs, there was a multicultural club at school.

Cook: What did you run in track?

Harden: The 200 and 400 and I jumped and did the relays. We went all the way to state and when I came to Virginia my team went to Nationals.

Cook: Wow, I love track and field.

Harden: I had a lot of fun and met a lot of people.

Cook: Do you feel you had an adequate education in high school?

Harden: I do, I do. I think it's what you make of it. My first school I know I did - every single class! My second school being in Virginia and maybe it was because I was new. I transferred in my junior year.

Cook: That's very hard.

Harden: It's hard to adjust. I spent a lot of time in the drafting lounge just because no one ever went in there so I could draw and do things and never be disturbed. I think the biggest difference was, in my first high school I couldn't miss class because teachers would come and find you. In my second school, I wouldn't go to class. I would spend two or three class periods in the drafting lounge and still get A's in my classes. So, it makes you wonder what the teachers are doing. Maybe they didn't care that you weren't there especially if I could still get an A. It wasn't like I was taking regular classes. I was in AP classes and honors classes. I could still get an A in your class and not be there.

Cook: That's more caring that they would come and hunt you down. Where was the second school, Northern Virginia?

Harden: Northern Virginia, Fairfax.

Cook: Was that a big one?

Harden: Not as big as my first school. My first school, gosh, we had an open 18:00campus and they kept the school at three thousand. It was a huge school. It really was. People would move into that district just so their children could go there. I know in my class when I came in we started off with a thousand. We are the class of 1996 and there are 800 seniors--so just between the freshman and seniors. And when I came to Virginia, my graduating class was 375--small. I remember my first day; I was wandering around looking for the rest of the school because it was so small compared to my first school.

Cook: You may have said this already but could you say the name of both high schools.

Harden: The first one is John Marshall and the second one is W. T. Woodson.

Cook: When you moved into Fairfax, was that an integrated community as well?

Harden: No.

Cook: So the high school was predominantly black?

Harden: No predominantly white.

Cook: Oh, okay!

Harden: The area that we moved into was not integrated at all. [Laughter] I remember it took two weeks before I saw another African American. I ran up and I hugged him, because I hadn't seen one! I guess it was the area that we moved into. There just weren't a lot of--

Cook: Was this after your parents had retired?

Harden: My dad had, but my mom had not at the time. She had transferred jobs. She wasn't active duty anymore. She was in the Reserves. So she was at NIH, National Institutes of Health.

Cook: She had to do that commute?

Harden: Oh yeah, 45 minutes to an hour.

Cook: So, your high school was white. Was it a high SES area?

Harden: Hmmm--I don't know.

Cook: I always hear that Northern Virginia--you know, there's so much money and the schools are so--

Harden: I don't know just because that stuff never interested me. So, I really don't know. I really didn't dig into it. There were a lot of Asians in the school and that was really different for me because I'd never seen that many before. Those were your two main cultural groups in the school.

Cook: While you were growing up, did you have both white and black friends?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: Or Asian or--

Harden: More white and black because in Texas there are not that many Asians.

Cook: In Texas, were there American Indians?

Harden: Yes, Indians, or Native American I should say.

Cook: You already told me what made you decide to come to Virginia Tech. How did you become interested in the Corps?

Harden: Coming from the Air Force Academy, when I came to Virginia Tech, I had a year in service so my freshman year, I was not in the Corps but I was on active 21:00duty status So I have a year in service from the Academy. So after that, you need to do something. So then I joined the Corps in my sophomore year and came through the Corps ranks. It was twofold. One, I wanted the Air Force career and two; they paid for me to go to school! It worked out both ways.

Cook: What year are you in?

Harden: I'm in my senior year. I'm graduating in December, December 16th at 10 a.m.!

Cook: I know your parents will be excited. Tell me what your major is.

Harden: Mechanical engineering with a concentration in leadership.

Cook: What made you decide to go into mechanical engineering?

Harden: I started off in aerospace engineering and I wasn't happy at all. So, I switched. I actually had an internship and my internship caused me to switch because I saw that aerospace engineering was not what I wanted to do. So I switched to an ME internship and I liked that a lot more. I don't regret the decision at all.

Cook: Were you able to do the internship and still stay at Tech and be active?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: So, it was local?

Harden: Well, it wasn't so much local. But the way they set it up with me was at Christmas, Thanksgiving, any breaks I could come back and work. I just needed to call them like the day before and say I'm coming in tomorrow.

Cook: What was that company?

Harden: DOD, Department of Defense, specifically Defense Information Systems Agency, Center for Integration.

Cook: You are very busy!

Harden: [Laughter]

Cook: You didn't even have vacations!

Harden: No, I was working. I worked through high school, worked through college.

Cook: What did you do in high school?

Harden: Well, I baby sat and worked at a bookstore. So, after track practice, I'd go and work at the bookstore. I'd come home and do my homework. A lot of people say, Oh my gosh, your parents let you do that? But, it wasn't about 'they let me.' Actually, my dad offered to pay me not to work. But, I wanted to. I wanted to earn my own money. I wanted to be that independent.

Cook: That's very admirable. We need more people like you!

[Laughter]

Cook: I'm not sure if you have scholarships in the Corps but do you have any scholarships?

Harden: I have an Air Force scholarship and what's called a Carl Rowan scholarship. Carl Rowan is a publicist out of D.C., Washington, D.C. I have one of the scholarships that he gives out.

Cook: How did you get that one through Tech or-?

Harden: No, through high school. I was nominated by my teachers in high school and you give a speech in front of about 15 people and they say, "We liked your 24:00speech. We feel that you're going to be positive in college. You're going to make a difference." You have a choice. You could either accept one of seven scholarships, and they are full rides, to schools of their choice or you can accept just money and go to a school of your own choosing.

Cook: Which is what you did?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: That is for four years?

Harden: It could be for four years but I only got it for my freshmen year because the Air Force picked up the last three years.

Cook: Oh, all right! Is that Rowan, R-O-W-A-N?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: Could you tell me what you're going to do after you graduate?

Harden: I'm going into the Air Force and what I would like to do is my four years in the Air Force and reevaluate if I'm going to stay or leave. But, I am applying to grad school because I want to go into Urban Affairs and Planning. What I want to do with that is social work in terms of opening up safe houses 25:00for children and for battered women.

Cook: Gosh!

Harden: I'm a big humanitarian. I think everyone can be saved!

Cook: Very interesting with your technical and mechanical engineering side that you have that humanitarian side. Do you love children?

Harden: I do. I do! For the longest time, I always said I didn't want kids. I always called them rugrats. I don't want any of those! Then I started working more and more at my church and in local areas. Like when I would go and visit my sister in Miami, I would see kids on the streets. Well, I would see adults but it really bothered me that there were children living on the streets. They would rob and they would steal just because they needed food.

Cook: Little kids?

Harden: They were maybe 10 or 12.

Cook: This was in the past decade?

Harden: Yes, in Miami. It would really bother me when I would go down there. Even when I would go to D.C., Washington, D.C., and I'd walk around. I'm going in and out of museums and this child, maybe 15 or 16. I'm saying child like I'm so much older! [Laughter] 15 or 16 and they're standing there asking for food, 26:00trying somehow to get money to survive. They're simply trying to survive. I don't think any child should be forced to survive in that way! Where you're put out on the streets. I know so many families who came home and they thought their rent was being paid; they thought the husband was paying the rent. He wasn't paying the rent but he was stealing the money and having an affair. Whatever he was doing and now they're out on the street. The kids are victims of that. It's not their fault they're out on the street. And in terms of battered women, so many of my relatives have been victims of sexual assault. Husbands have been beating them and so forth. I don't think anyone should have to suffer in that way. I know there are a lot of community groups and homes that you can go to but 27:00I want to offer one that would have after school programs so that if the child just needed tutoring or they just needed a meal. If they needed breakfast, whatever they could come and get that. Get what they needed, basically.

Cook: Because they are our future!

Harden: Definitely!

Cook: Are you politically active in any way?

Harden: I like to think I am. I'm a part of what's called PAN and that's Progressive Action Network and what that is, is the NAACP, Tree Care. NRV Care, which is like the animals, animal shelters and so forth, Women's Space in the Women's Center and so forth. It's a whole bunch of different activists on campus and we get together every other week and we just talk about what our groups are doing and what we can do to help each other. We keep that network going to better our community whether it be Virginia Tech or nationally. Amnesty International is on the records.

Cook: What does PAN stand for again?

Harden: Progressive Action Network. We took a bus up to the women's march. That 28:00was last Sunday. Well, I wasn't there to picket in front of Target but in terms of--Gosh! What is the term when someone is using cheap labor and they don't pay you for it?

Cook: Is it slave labor?

Harden: Basically, exactly and we would go out to that Target, not necessarily this Target, but there are Target chains in other areas that do use a real cheap labor force, so we're picketing them.

Cook: Wonderful! That is very politically active! And you have time for all this?

Harden: I try to.

Cook: Do you go to church here and which community?

Harden: I go to St. Paul AME. Granted I'm Baptist. I go to St. Paul AME just 29:00because there's a family atmosphere and I like that. I like having that sense of community. If I need something, there's someone there.

Cook: Do you know Dr. Herndon?

Harden: Yes, Michael Herndon.

Cook: How was your reception when you first came into the Corps, did you have a good experience?

Harden: I think everyone goes through the stage where you want to quit. So I was dealing with that plus I was older than the freshman that were there. So I didn't have the same interests as they did. When they would talk about where's the nearest party or frat house that didn't interest me at all. So I had a conflict with them about that because they didn't understand why don't you hang out with us, why don't you do this? I was like I'm older than you; this doesn't faze me at all.

Cook: Was that majorly the girls?

Harden: Girls and guys. Some of them didn't speak to me and that didn't bother 30:00me just because I didn't hang out--nothing they did interested me. You know we were in the Corps together but my goal was to get to the Air Force. My goal wasn't to make new friends. In that regard, I think I was a little--maybe I could have tried harder. I don't know. But, it was a different reception.

Cook: Did you have to go through being a RAT?

Harden: I did.

Cook: Even though you came in your sophomore year?

Harden: Exactly, even though I had gone through basic training and all of that.

Cook: Oh wow!

Harden: You still have to go through that and that kind of bothered me because it seemed like 'old hat.' I felt like I was being a freshman for the third time and I didn't like it. But, I stuck to it because it was part of the process to get to my goal. It's part of the process. Got to go through the process!

Cook: Is that a year process?

Harden: Yes, I only did it August through November. Well actually let me take that back, I only did it the first semester.

Cook: I can't imagine what that would be like.

Harden: It's different. I learned a lot about myself. What I would deal with and what I wouldn't deal with and the power of 'no' and the power of standing up for who I am. Just because you're in a subordinate position does not mean that you don't have power. I think a lot of people especially freshman forget that fact. That just because you're a subordinate doesn't mean you don't have any power doesn't mean you don't have any say as to what happens to you. I let it be known 32:00as a matter of fact my nickname got to be, Censored, because people said well, I guess they felt like they couldn't do certain things around me or whatever. I said, well that's fine. If I can make you feel on guard where you have to question what you do around me, great! Call me whatever, Censor, Blackout, whatever.

Cook: That's just a compliment.

Harden: Exactly and when they gave me the shirt, they thought I was going to be offended and I thought you're the one who's second guessing yourself, not me.

Cook: They gave you a shirt with Censor on it?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: Well, how do you show your power in that type of situation? For instance, I guess I have a stereotype image of you being yelled at or something.

Harden: One thing that you always have to remember in any kind of hostile when I say hostile in terms of yelling and push ups and so forth in that environment is that no one can put their hands on you. You can yell at me all you want. You're the one that's going to lose your voice, not me. You can't put your hands on me and what's the worst thing that you're going to do to me--yell. I can deal with that until you don't have a voice anymore. So, it wasn't so much that I just didn't do anything but I would get down there in the dirt and do my pushups and 33:00sit-ups and so forth and you couldn't tell me. Like the information we had to learn in the terms of military history, the Corps history--knew it, took my tests, did what I had to do. But, I wasn't one of those people who let me hang out to get goody goody with you and let me figure out what buttons I can push with you. No, I'm about getting through this process. Just get to the end. All this unnecessary stuff okay cut that out, in terms of excess yelling and--I can remember things like cleaning the bathroom--it wasn't bad things but like, 34:00what's the point? Cleaning the bathrooms, cleaning the hallways and stuff like that. I understand that everybody has to pull those duties. It wasn't stuff like that. It didn't make sense at first. Like why are we out here? But, after a while I was like, it's not going to kill me to clean the hallway so it was whatever. I remember one night; I was walking to the bathroom. I was just going to the bathroom and one of the cadets, I want to say a sergeant stopped me and he looked me up and down and wouldn't look in my face. I'm real big on that. Look me in the face if you have something to say. He would look me up and down and he was walking around me. He said, "So, I hear you're on the track team." I said, "Yes." He said, "You look like it!" I thought, "Why, you have no business staring at me!" So, whereas some freshman might have been, "Oh he stared at me!" It wasn't right. I was uncomfortable. Well, I went and told my commanding officer. I gave him an expectation as to what I expect you to do about this situation. And that night--I had an apology by the end of the night.

Cook: Good for you! You do have power.

Harden: Exactly, you do have power and you don't have to deal with it.

Cook: Instead of letting it degrade you.

Harden: Exactly, you turn it around.

Cook: It's hard for me to imagine.

Harden: It is hard. I try to go over there, even now. I try to go over and talk to the freshman, just whoever I pass in the hallway. Just keep your head up. You can do it! Just little things to let them know there is someone who has gone through it. A lot of the older people who are yelling at you, the sophomores, juniors and seniors, some of them, yes, are yelling at you because they are power tripping. Some of them are actually doing their job because they care about you and they want you to be the best. So, you have to decipher who those people are. Who to listen to you and who not to listen to. What you'll find is that most of the people who are power tripping are the ones who are yelling at you. The ones who care, who want you to be the best are the ones that are pushing you. They are like, come on you can do it. I saw you make that mistake. 36:00Why did you make that mistake? what's the correct way to do it. Do it again. Do it again. It's the people who are going to push you, not the people that yell at you. That's the big difference and I would hope that they would come to learn and decipher.

Cook: Do you try to help women and men?

Harden: I do. I do. Actually I mentor four of the cadet freshman.

Cook: Are they women or men?

Harden: Both three men and one woman.

Cook: Is that typical for older students?

Harden: No actually, it's typical out of the engineering department. They're all engineers.

Cook: Oh, okay.

Harden: What the engineering department does our minority engineering department, what they do is try as an older cadet try to match you up with freshman cadets. If you're an older athlete, match you up with freshman athletes who are in the engineering department so that you can help guide them and steer them. Kind of, okay you should do this, don't do that, take this person, don't 37:00take this person, rearrange your schedule. The freshman, they try to get them into calculus and engineering fundamentals classes together so they already have a study group. They don't have to worry about making friends or trying to find a study group. You have one. It's about five to seven students on each team. I just happen to have four because there aren't that many cadets.

Cook: So that would help with retention?

Harden: Yes, helps with retention, we go to dinner, we have time management sessions. We have to sit down to a wig out session okay, tell me all your stress from the week. We have fun!

Cook: Do you live on-campus?

Harden: This semester I live off-campus. For the last four years, I lived on campus.

Cook: Where did you live on campus?

Harden: My first year I was in A.J, East A.J. and the last three I was in Brodie. Now I live in Cedarfield Apartments.

Cook: Do you like living off-campus?

Harden: I do! I like going into 'my room.' There's not a roommate there and 38:00there's no one knocking on my door. It's MY ROOM! My kitchen, my refrigerator and what I put in is there the next day! I don't have to worry about going to the dining halls. It's mine.

Cook: Do you live by yourself?

Harden: No, I do have a roommate. She was my roommate my junior year and we are used to living together. She is also graduating in December. We have very odd schedules, so we actually don't see each other often in the apartment.

Cook: Are you on the track team at Tech?

Harden: I was. I stopped. The track team it demands a lot of you.

Cook: The traveling?

Harden: The traveling, exactly. That's what got me, the traveling. Trying to do that and be an engineer. Something had to give so I left the team. I'd like to go back but not until after I get my degree. It won't be until after I get my degree.

Cook: Did you run the four hundred?

Harden: Yes, the 2[00] and the 4[00].

Cook: How many years were you on the team?

Harden: Just one just because in engineering, they throw you in head first.

Cook: Do they not want you to go?

Harden: No they were just like, "Why are you going?" When I explained the reason was in terms of academics, she could understand that. She was like we can get tutors and computers and so forth. I was like; it's a time factor. When you travel from Thursday to Sunday, you miss that class time and lab time, group time. There's only so much of that you can make up with a tutor.

Cook: I bet that's a lot of stress too. Knowing you're at a meet and you have to do all of that.

Harden: Exactly, where everyone is listening to Walkman's, I used to be in the corner like this problem is and so forth trying to do my homework in between races.

Cook: Do you have a mentor in the Corps?

Harden: Not now. My mentor actually wasn't a Cadet when I came through. She was 40:00an engineer and after that first year, I knew older people in the Corps who were also engineers so I would go to them for help. But, my specific mentor was not in the Corps.

Cook: Could you tell me about her?

Harden: Davida Mason. She was wonderful. She was wonderful from freshman year on. We're still friends. She is getting her MBA at Pace University in New York. I'm going to see her in a few weeks.

Cook: Is she African American?

Harden: Yes. She was wonderful in terms of like everything from where to wash my clothes, what classes to take, just to have someone to talk to. She was great. She would come and visit me and I would go and visit her. When my parents weren't down on weekends and everyone else in the whole dorm had a family, she would be my family and I would go stay with her. She was just great. Never 41:00judgmental about anything; you know you make freshman mistakes, you make college mistakes. Never judgmental, always supportive. Like well, you know you need to and you don't need to and I trust you. You're going to be okay.

Cook: Like a big sister?

Harden: Exactly, like a big sister, she was really good to me.

Cook: Can you say her name again?

Harden: Davida Mason.

Cook: That's D-a-v-i-t?

Harden: No, it's David with an "a."

Cook: Do you feel any resistance in the Corps, from males, females, blacks, whites?

Harden: There is some but you have to know how to handle it. When I say there's some, first of all being a female in a predominantly male atmosphere, you're going to have to prove yourself. The guys are only going to look out for you to a certain extent and then it becomes you have to survive on your own and you 42:00have to show that I'm here for the long hall and I'm here to work just as hard if not harder than you are. In terms of male. In terms of race, I think it's a freshman atmosphere of I don't know. From the environment I come from I don't know. I don't know how to interact with people not of my race. So there's a lot of that struggle. Comments are made and certain situations occur that shouldn't occur but it's in the way you handle it. You do have a commanding officer. You can hold people accountable for their actions. Then it becomes a matter of also educating people, like on a daily basis just walking around you might hear someone use a phrase like I don't know--let me think--like imitating a comedian, 43:00a black comedian. Something like that. And they would approach you and say don't you know what this joke means, what this word means--

Cook: A white person?

Harden: A white person, exactly. It's like, no, do you just assume I know that because a black person said it and I'm black too? It's that sort of thing.

Cook: Would you actually say that?

Harden: I would! Just because I want to know is that honestly what you think? From that point it's no, not all of us think alike. So that might be what they think and I don't agree with it. So, it becomes--you almost have to educate as you're going through and let people know. Not everyone means it in an offensive way, they just don't know. That is a line you have to walk. Who means it and who just doesn't know and then you go from there. I think it takes time if its time you want to invest.

Cook: But you've never come up against any overt racism?

Harden: There was one incident where my roommate and I were asleep and I'm a 44:00light sleeper and three guys were standing outside our door. They were talking and one made a comment, something like, well, niggers shouldn't be here anyway because--it was something to the effect that they're too dumb to be here. Something to that affect and I'm the only African American in the Company and you're standing outside my door so you had to know Cook: Your roommate wasn't African-American? Harden: No I was the only one. you had to know what you were doing. I took it to my Commanding Officer. We have Company officers who are advisors to the Company. It just so happened that our Company Commander was also in the Air Force so they handled the situation. Unfortunately I couldn't tell who it was.

Cook: Was it a male?

Harden: It was a male. I know it was a male. But I couldn't tell who it was. My thing from that point became, I'm not going to sit here and guess who it was but know that I won't stand for this. So I let my Commanding Officer know and I let the Air Force know also. We had a Company meeting with everyone present. A formal report was made up in terms of I heard and it was later found out who the 45:00person was and they were dismissed. They banned from the building and eventually left the Corps, left the university actually.

Cook: Did you want to open the door and just kill him?

Harden: I wanted to but it was one o'clock or two o'clock in the morning. So it was late anyway, three males, me and my roommate, and I don't know if you are drinking. So I didn't want to get into that sort of conversation. I looked out at the people. I couldn't tell who it was. I still couldn't tell because where they were sitting was lower than what I could see.

Cook: So obviously, it's co-ed. I didn't know that

Harden: Oh, yeah! My room and the room next to me, we were the only females on that floor. Everyone else was male. Oh yeah!

Cook: I guess I had that stereotype.

Harden: That adds another thing in terms of females sleeping with their doors unlocked. People will wander in drunk and try to get in your bed.

Cook: Or walking to the bathroom at night.

Harden: Walking to the bathroom at night, oh yeah! various situations.

Cook: You're not allowed to lock your door?

Harden: No you're supposed to, but some females--I shouldn't say females, some people wouldn't just because they feel like it's a cadet atmosphere. It's supposed to be safe. Everyone's on the honor code and so forth. So I shouldn't have to lock my door. But, then you run into people who are drunk. They may come back to the dorm and try to get to their room they may mistake your room for their room, so forth and so forth.

Cook: Here I have a stereotype of there would be no drinking and coming back in 47:00the Corps.

Harden: You would think, you would hope but it happens.

Cook: It's college.

Harden: It's college, Exactly. A lot of people think you're a cadet. You're supposed to be at a different standard, a different level but people are people.

[End of Tape 1, Side 1]

Harden: It's not a majority at all, at all. It's very few, very few people.

Cook: That is very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. I think you already answered this as well. Do you feel the Corps is a macho environment?

Harden: In many ways, yes.

Cook: Did you see Missy Cummings talk? She was a F18 fighter pilot?

Harden: No, I didn't hear her talk but I know her in terms of from the department of engineering. But, no I missed her speech.

Cook: I went to that, She says that in the Navy --I guess she was referring to 48:00all the armed forces was a "warrior culture." Do you feel that is true?

Harden: I could agree with that. It's definitely fighting, well not that struggling, surviving. You have to do it. If that's what you want, you have to survive. There are many different ways of surviving and you have to choose which way you're going to go about it. Are you going to survive by letting people walk all over you and hope that you get to your goal or are you going to survive by making your choices and letting people know that you are a presence here.

Cook: Do you get a lot of your attributes through your parents?

Harden: Yes [laughter].

Cook: That's wonderful! What leadership opportunities does the Corps offer you?

Harden: Oh gosh! So many. Actually starting in your freshman year, you can be what's called the new cadet in charge. Basically that means you're responsible 49:00for your bud class in terms of knowing where everyone is, setting up schedules for them and so forth. Actually it's called the "head new cadet." Sophomore year you can be a team leader, scholastics officer--coming on up, a squad leader and it's just a matter of how many cadets are underneath you. When I finished the Corps, I was the regimental chaplain, so I oversaw a lot of the spiritual needs of the Corps in terms of setting up faith studies, counseling sessions, in terms of PR counseling, peer mediation. A lot of that stuff.

Cook: Did you enjoy that?

Harden: I did. Sometimes you have to learn how to detach yourself though.

Cook: I was just thinking that.

Harden: Exactly because it can become a lot for another student. A lot of people--it use to be funny because they would come to me with their problems and think like I must not have any because you're the Chaplain, you must not have any, so it was hard. A lot of times I would call my parents and say, "Oh! This happened and I don't know what I'm doing. It's making me crazy!" I had to learn 50:00how to emotionally separate myself. I can't get emotionally involved in every single situation because I would never have anything left for myself. All you can do is listen and provide options for people.

Cook: You can't solve everyone's problems.

Harden: Exactly.

Cook: It sounds like you have a nurturing side which is interesting. So, one of the positive aspects of the Corps is to offer leadership opportunities?

Harden: Yes both in the Corps and outside of the Corps.

Cook: Do you feel that as a member of the Corps you are stereotyped by non-Corps students?

Harden: Yes, yes you are, especially being a female. Guys are afraid to ask you out because they think you are going to beat them up!

[Laughter]

Harden: I wish that wasn't, that I was exaggerating, but it's so true. I remember this one guy I went out with. He thought it was the coolest thing in the world but it annoyed me to death. He'd introduce me as, "This is Janelle. She could kill you if she wanted to."

Cook: Oh my gosh!

Harden: You don't tell people that--I mean I can. But, you don't tell people that I can kill them with my bare hands.

Cook: That a little intimidating. You can!

Harden: Yes.

Cook: How did you learn that?

Harden: It's part of our training. Like I said our basic training--we learn survival skills when I went through basic and so a lot of that was survival. When I say survival not only in the woods but also in terms of rape survival and things that you can do to avoid situations. Basic things, if someone has you in a choke hold, how to get out of it. This sounds so negative.

Cook: No, it doesn't because it's something that's useful for women!

Harden: How to break people's legs, kicking, screaming, clawing and the proper ways of doing it not just frantically hitting at air; how to do it, how to strike, how close you should let the person get before you attack, how to run, how to fall.

Cook: So, it gives you power as a woman especially? That's wonderful

Harden: From the female side of it - non-Cadet females - they see it, as you guys are just a bunch of brutes.

Cook: It may be threatening to them.

Harden: Exactly.

Cook: That's annoying. Can you tell of any situations with a female?

Harden: Like seeing us in a dress they'd say, I didn't think you were allowed to wear those. I am feminine. We can be feminine. You're not supposed to do that. Why aren't you in uniform? Why are you dressed that way? That sort of thing. You can let your hair down. I didn't think you could let your hair down. Yes, and I 53:00can curl it too. It's those kinds of things, like you're not supposed to be feminine. But, then from the male standpoint, its well, you're going to beat me up if I ask you out. So I'm not going to ask you out. So, you hear it on both sides for females.

Cook: Do you feel jealousy from females too?

Harden: A little bit, a little bit because some of them knock females when they date the guys in the Corps. When they find out we live next door to each other, they get a little bit upset. Oh, you live next to him and you can see him anytime and you can see him in a towel and in a robe! It's like do you realize I'm not even looking at them. They're not cute to me. I don't even see that at all.

Cook: So, they're looking to date them because they're in the Corps?

Harden: Oh, yes love a man in uniform, just not a woman in uniform.

[Laughter]

Cook: Oh right!

Harden: You get stuff like that, "Oh you know him? Where's he live? What's his phone number? Does he have a girlfriend?" I don't talk to him. He lives two 54:00doors down. I don't know what he does in his room. The girls are quite interesting!

Cook: Kind of a silly question but are your uniforms comfortable? I always wondered that!

Harden: Well for me personally the white shirt uniform is and that's just the everyday class uniform. I don't like the blue collar, what we call our Dress A or Dress B uniform. That's the blue with the white pants just because the collar annoys me.

Cook: Does it feel choking?

Harden: Yes. It's choking and it clasps there. Well, just for me it pushes my neck in and I don't like it. I don't like the way it sits and I can never--like the way the pants fit--they don't fit right to me. It's like they're on backwards but they're actually on right. So, that uniform I don't like.

Cook: I've just always been curious about that.

Harden: And then the cross belts when we wear dress A, the cross belts they suck you in.

Cook: Are both uniforms pants and top or do you have a skirt and top?

Harden: We have a skirt, but that's only our mess dress uniform and we wear that to formal occasions like our dining in and our military ball. That's a skirt and a jacket.

Cook: Is that comfortable?

Harden: That's comfortable.

Cook: How about the shoes?

Harden: The shoes? Well, in that uniform we wear the heels and every day we wear our low quarters and we have to polish those. They're pretty comfortable. You can buy inserts and padding.

Cook: How 'bout hat?

Harden: That's not too bad. That's pretty comfortable.

Cook: Has anyone been important to you on campus? I guess you talked about the one mentor.

Harden: My mentor is presently over in the business department, Dr. Smith. Of course everyone in the engineering department especially mechanical engineering. I know a lot of students who can't say that. Like everyone is important but 56:00between the Office of Minority Engineering Programs and my M.E. faculty and staff, they are wonderful. They are fully supportive. My mentor that I have at the University, like Sunday as a matter of fact, we spent the day together, went to church and spent the afternoon together. We just talk and I call her momma Smith. We just talk about everything. She gives me money when I'm broke. I have a key to her house if ever I don't want to stay at home. I can come stay at their house, clothes, gosh anything.

Cook: And she goes to the AME church as well? She's a professor in business?

Harden: She is.

Cook: Do you know Barbara Pendergrass?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: You already told me you plan to stay in the military at least for four more years. When do you have to decide that?

Harden: To stay for four more years?

Cook: Right, do you definitely sign up? Have you done that yet?

Harden: I have. When I accepted my scholarship for the three years, that's when I incurred a four-year commitment to the military.

Cook: That's four more after you graduate?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: But that will be in Virginia while you get your degree?

Harden: Actually, I'll be in Ohio.

Cook: Oh!

Harden: And wherever I travel from in Ohio. The military can move you anywhere.

Cook: Then how will you get your degree?

Harden: Correspondence. That's what I'm working with now to make sure I can do correspondence so if I need to wait a certain amount of time--also once I get to Ohio, find out how long I'll be in Ohio because say if I'm going to be in Ohio for a year I can start classes there at a neighboring college to the base. I can start classes. I might not be able to finish the lab work or my thesis, but you can always mail that.

Cook: But, your actual degree will be from Tech though?

Harden: That's what I'm hoping. That's what I'm working on, getting the 58:00correspondence between Universities. Like I said, I have to figure out how long I'll be in Ohio and will they work together, will the two schools two departments work together.

Cook: What is the base in Ohio?

Harden: Wright-Patterson.

Cook: Where is that?

Harden: Dayton.

Cook: Here's some generic questions. Do you think women should be drafted?

Harden: Oh wow! I never thought about that one actually.

Cook: Thought it was a good one!

Harden: It's a good question. Actually, I think people should have the option to be drafted, both men and women. So, yes but people should have the option. I don't think it should just be automatic that males are drafted, I think you 59:00should have the option. Kind of the way it is right now by the age of eighteen you have to make a choice, yes or no. Granted from the government's side of it, then it would become we don't have enough people so that would have to be worked out. Or maybe it should be random social security numbers. I don't know.

Cook: But in your opinion, if males are, then females should be?

Harden: Right!

Cook: Do you think women should be in combat?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: Do you want to make any more comments about that?

Harden: I think they should just because--mostly it goes back to proving yourself. If you're a woman and you feel like you can handle it and ALL - EVERYTHING that happens in combat then go for it if that's truly what you want to do. I know there are a lot of stereotypes in terms of well if she has cramps she might shoot the wrong person. That sort of thing. All these stereotypes. But if that's what a woman wants to do then by all means go for it. Do what you want 60:00to do. Do what you're set on!

Cook: How about all women combat units?

Harden: I think there has to be some type of mix, some kind of diversity because you need to feed off of each other male and female. As in any situation if you have a group of women or men you start to get into this mindset and sometimes you need new ideas to bounce off of each other. Some are going to be stronger than others are-- different attributes so I think you need have to have a mixed environment, both men and women. In terms of training style, I think once again you feed off of one another in terms of training style. So, in that case I think you should be able to train together, maybe not live together but train together.

Cook: Would you be willing to go into combat?

Harden: I would. I wouldn't like it too much but I'd be willing to go.

Cook: When you are going to be in the Air Force for four more years, do you have any idea of your duties yet?

Harden: What I was told was Aerospace Systems Engineering.

Cook: Can't get away from that!

Harden: No, can't get away from it! Specifically I don't know if that's fighters or maintenance but that's what I was told or the whole new development of a system on an airplane. But, I know that is what I'll be in, Aerospace Systems.

Cook: So obviously, you like airplanes?

Harden: I do.

Cook: You don't get motion sickness or anything?

Harden: No. I use to fly out of the Tech airport here and I have some logged hours there. It's fun to me. I wouldn't want to do it in terms of being a pilot but it's fun.

Cook: Have you flown in helicopters?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: You don't get sick in them? You're lucky

Harden: No. They're fun, I like the way they dip.

Cook: You like roller coasters?

Harden: Yes!

Cook: I don't. I forgot to ask you what company are you in?

Harden: I started in Bravo and then I went to Delta. Then I was on the Regimental Special Staff so I wasn't in a company.

Cook: Okay. I read about the Gold Cord, that a Competition?

Harden: Right, it's a competition. Bravo Company had won in the previous two years before my class came through. We didn't win. Then Delta Company, I think they won it one year. I want to say last year if not the year before but I'm not positive. I wasn't in the company at that time. Then I have a Regimental Special Staff Cord.

Cook: What would you consider the major events in your student life at Virginia Tech?

Harden: Being on the track team, joining my sorority, Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. and the starting of CAASI, which is the Committee for African American Student Issues.

Cook: Can you talk a little about your sorority and then CAASI?

Harden: My sorority is a service organization founded by five women on the campus of Howard University in 1920, specifically January 16th, 1920. We are the sisters to Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. and as a service organization we do parties for disadvantaged children at both Christmas and Easter. We work with Head Start, we do tutoring in the high schools, we help the high school students in terms of the Black Awareness Club, we'll help them with programs, we travel to Roanoke, to Richmond, where have you to help out, diabetes walk, AIDS walk, 64:00sexual awareness. We work with Women's Space. As a matter of fact, we're in the process now of doing a baby shower. Basically we're going to collect a whole bunch of items, baby items from various people and organizations and have a baby shower for moms who can't necessarily afford it. Like bottles and diapers and so forth and give them gifts.

Cook: I wish I knew that! I just gave so much stuff to the Humane Society [Thrift Shop].

Harden: Okay. We're working with the Women's Center on that one. Gosh, well last year we had the highest QCA of all sororities!

Cook: Excellent!

Harden: We work very hard. We work hard in the community and hard at our academics.

Cook: Of all the sororities?

Harden: Yes.

Cook: I saw that you were on the list of the Corps for high GPA's.

Harden: Right. We participate and work wherever we can. We're all about helping 65:00community and community development. As a matter of fact, as we're speaking now, the rest of my organization is doing a candy sale to help raise money for a ball we're having on November 11th and the proceeds from the ball will go towards the baby shower, AIDS Walk, the Diabetes Walk, so on and so forth. Anything we can help with.

Cook: That's wonderful!

Harden: Then CAASI was started by Zeta Phi Beta and the NAACP and I'm co-founder of that. It's the committee for African American student issues. We meet with President Steger and other organizations on campus just to find out what as African American students can we do to better our campus. What can we do to show we are involved in our campus in terms of getting more students here? In terms of getting people to diversify the campus and come to the campus, come to our 66:00programs that were having. Not think it's only as a "Black thing" but also as a campus wide program or what have you. To what can we do? We work with Admissions. We work with President Steger's office. We're working with the Calendar Committee that makes up the calendar for Virginia Tech to reflect some cultural events for the school. Gosh! What else do we do? We work with the Blacksburg police in terms of cutting down on student harassment. We work with the Dean of students, graduate students, anybody can help, anybody who wants to better their campus. I know we're working with Ben Dixon. I'm talking about Dr. Dixon, Vice President for Multicultural Affairs. We're working with his office now because a lot of people don't notice this but that wall, the timeline wall in Burruss Hall near Financial Aid on the second floor - it doesn't reflect when African Americans entered the University, nor does it reflect when minorities entered the University. It talks about women, but that's it. So we're working on 67:00either getting a new wall that reflects minorities and African Americans and so forth or just having a multicultural wall of its own that reflects the first African American, the first Asian American, the first Native American and so forth at the University.

Cook: Let me know if you have any luck finding the first Native American because I'm trying to find them and I can't.

Harden: Have you checked the MCC Multicultural Center?

Cook: Yes, I believe I've checked them. Actually one office does have statistics but it would take them so long and they're not allowed to give me a name?

Harden: Oh, really! The Alumni Association can't do anything?

Cook: It's hard with American Indians at a certain time in history in Virginia they either went on their birth certificates by "Negro" or "White." So it's 68:00hard. In Virginia for quite a long time, Walter Plecker who was in charge of the Bureau of Vital Statistics wouldn't let any Indians put American Indian on their birth certificates. So if you hit on anything, let me know. So, I guess I'm proud to say our Black Timeline at least we're doing that on the web. I wonder why--that's very strange, in Burruss of all places, they have that.

Harden: There is a picture of Nikki Giovanni as a Notable Professor and that's it!

Cook: We can go back to is it, Peddrew as the first black man.

Harden: And then Dr. Yates was the first one to graduate.

Cook: Okay. There's a lot of talk about Affirmative Action policies. Do you have 69:00any comment on that?

Harden: Affirmative Action comes from presenting an opportunity. It's up to you to take that opportunity and run with it. I know a lot of people feel it can be a crutch to fill a quota and so forth. I feel it's an opportunity. It would totally undermine everything that I believe in to think that I got into Virginia Tech because they needed another African American body. I choose to feel it's because I have a great academic record and I am an asset to this University.

Cook: Im sure it is!

Harden: So I think that's where some people get confused is that one, if you don't have pride in yourself and your accomplishments, in the quality of person that you are then you will fall victim to the stereotypes that affirmative action is just to get more numbers and I'm here because I'm a quota or 70:00statistics or what have you. If you believe that you are, then you are. I choose not to think that.

Cook: How do you view diversity on campus here in Southwest Virginia?

Harden: I view it oddly actually. I think there is integration. I don't think there is diversity. The reason why I make that distinction is because a lot of people think diversity is strictly numbers. As long as we have more then the campus is diverse, but that's not what it means. Diversity is the accepting of another culture. It is the accepting of another lifestyle. I might not be gay or lesbian but I recognize that you all have a gay and lesbian month, that you all have activities. The University should recognize that. Black History--just because you aren't black does not mean you can't participate in activities and the University can't recognize that--Asian Americans and so forth--all these 71:00groups. So when that starts happening, then we have diversity! When people don't see "women's space" and feel like you have to be a woman to come to the program. When we can get past that, then we have diversity on campus. Otherwise, we're dealing with a state of integration.

Cook: Janelle that's such a good answer! How do you like Blacksburg and in particular Southwest Virginia?

Harden: It's nice. I like it because it's slow. It reminds me of San Antonio which is good because it's slow. Being in northern Virginia around the D.C. area, people drive so fast and I'm not saying that I'm a slow driver or anything like that but--

Cook: They're aggressive.

Harden: They're aggressive and I don't like getting flicked off every day. So it's good to be down here. I like horses and wildlife and cows and stuff. It 72:00doesn't bother me to be down here. It's not foreign to me to be around them. I like it. It's slow. I like the country and being able to drive out to West Virginia and look at the mountains and just like run around in the fields.

Cook: Would you like to settle someday in the country?

Harden: I would, I would.

Cook: Have you ever had any negative racial experiences in Christiansburg or the environs?

Harden: I can remember driving and someone passing me and yelling "Nigger" out the car.

Cook: This was in Montgomery County?

Harden: This was on campus!

Cook: Okay. Could you tell who it was?

Harden: I don't know. I couldn't tell who the person was. I was going about my merry way and they came around and yelled "Nigger!" Well, okay! I chucked it up to their own ignorance.

Cook: That's the only thing?

Harden: That's been the only big thing. Other things have been subtle. You could either take it as that's just the person or it could have been a racial 73:00comments, under the breath comment, so on and so forth, but I don't let it faze me too much.

Cook: Do you think that would be more of a problem in San Antonio?

Harden: Yes, definitely!

Cook: Are there any other things you'd like to bring up that we haven't talked about?

Harden: I can't think of anything!

Cook: Okay, we'll just stop then!

[End of Tape 2, Side 2]